alternate realities with the Italians early expert GA campaigns

[gaijinalways]

Hi everyone, it's fun to be battling again with MTW when I have the spare moment now and again.

In my current expert Italian early expert GA campaign, I have two alternate games running. One I have played to about 1210, where it seems I am at war with almost everyone (French, Sicilians, Polish, Hungarians and the English), though the only faction I attacked first was the HRE (who were eliminated by the French, and then resurfaced later, attacked me first, and now are neutral). Trade has really dried up, as the English decided after reaching near Provence to backstab me. In this game, I hold Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Saxony, Lorraine, Fraconia, Swabia, Switzerland, Tyrolia, Provence, Milan, Genoa, Tuscany, Venice, Corsica, Sardinia and Nicaea. I mistakenly decided I would get the pikeman buildings provinces (Tyrolia and Switzerland), but it seems like a lot of trouble for nothing .

The grab up north is more worthwhile, and in my 2nd campaign version Italian early expert GA at around 1158, I have taken Denmark, Sweden (Norway still trying to bribe), Saxony, and just taken Flanders instead, with a grab of Freisland planned next turn.

Few questions for our warlords;

Is it harder to maintain separated empires (only connected by sea)? [I seem to remember it is]

I suppose the Sicilians should be whacked earlier (as recommended by some in the Italian campaign guide). I'm just wondering when I should attempt to do it later in my 2nd campaign. I may do it soon, using my mercs when they are replaced by other troops in Flanders and soon to be conquered Freisland.

In both games I lead in GA points, so I am not in a poor position in either campaign, though in the first one, my warchest is a bit depleted, but I can possibly take Greece and Constantinople fairly easily (the Sicilians have taken a beating and I sit on Nicaea and Trebizond). My GA points lead is slightly larger, perhaps some 18 points (contrasted with a 7 point lead or so in the 2nd version).

In the second I am at war only with the French right now, with 19K in the bank.

In both campaigns, I probably have the largest navy overall, as in the first the Sicilians have mostly parts of the med, The English only the west coast of Europe, whereas I have most of everything else. In the second one, I have ships nearly around the globe, but only 1 ship per sea region.

Which sounds like a better position to you? What would you recommend for strategy moves in each campaign?

[PershsNhpios]

It is not harder to maintain empires separated by the sea, it is simply very risky.
Any province blockaded from the king will suffer much disloyalty and this coupled with war with an ally or an excommunication or both will see the empire dissolve very quickly.
To XL as an example, in TYB2.2 I have had great Irish, Scottish and English empires controlling Britain and Ireland, Iberia, France, and half of Africa and Italy.

I have never played past the 1250s with these empires because I ran away from the result of a sudden, necessary war with my ally, Denmark, which followed a war with my other ally, Hungaria, which had ships in every port. I managed to defeat all enemy ships except one - one in the Channel!

My king was in Wessex, and cut off from the entire empire. I was excommunicated and the monarch dropped from 7 to 2-3 influence.

France, Portugal, Castilla, Aragon, Moors, and HRE reemerged and I lost everything but Wessex and Mercia to civil war besides.

Make sure you rule the waves before you create an inter-continental empire!

-----------------------

Whatever modification or style of the game you play, an Italian faction must gain hegemony of Italia before attempting conquest elsewhere. Sicily often receives much more experienced naval commanders than other factions, and is like a strangler vine if left alive in your proximity. The highest priority.

I would suggest that you have not at all been economical in your conquests, and that you are maintaining difficult and unnecessary borders.

To speak of Vanilla or Caravel, as Italy I would secure Italia and Sicily, exile the Pope to the Papal States, form a firm and unbeatable navy around the homeland, place one well trained and undefeatable army in Milan/Tuscany, then invade Iberia at the weakest point and take out each faction there in co-ordination with it's rivals and in order of military strength, strongest to weakest if you can. A crusade to Granada is best for this if possible, or an invasion of the same.

Extend the navy to Gibraltar, swarm up the peninsular and hold Aragon/Navarre. You then have a huge financial bonus, with which you can aim at having fortresses and citadels in the Genoa/Milan/Venice crest of Italy, and the entrance to Iberia. Continue extending the navy to the Bay of Biscay, and make sure the navy at home is technologically on par at least with the Byzantines, and definitely more numerous.

Once a strong base is established in those five provinces, I would take France from Iberia, starting out with 4 armies divided between Navarre/Aragon, and racing over the country until the holy Quartet of Friesland (Saxony?)/Lorraine/Burgundy/Provence is held.

This is the main objective of all my western European campaigns, unless I want to be different.

The good news then is that you already have Italy (Which would be my next objective as the English for example), and can now focus on very large conquests of central Europe, which I have never been successful with for the above reasons, and which requires 6-8 armies if you want all your flanks covered, depending on your route of invasion.

I suppose at this stage you would be looking to race over all of Europe until you reach Lithuania/Volhynia/Levidia - Constantinople.

That would be something to see.

I am motivated!

[gaijinalways]

Sicily often receives much more experienced naval commanders than other factions, and is like a strangler vine if left alive in your proximity.

I think I'm more of a turtle type, but I agree the Sicilians can be very annoying on the seas. I'm debating when I might break their holds on Greece and Constantinople, and then attempt to cripple most of their ship building ports. I have continued with the 2nd campaign at the moment and am up around 1175 and my cash is up around 60k I think now. The HRE attacked me at Milan and paid a bit of a price (they are the only ones at war with me now, the French agreed to a cease fire). The only thing I'm doing now is getting some cav units ready as I don't have as many as I would like in some provinces.

I have also been busy increasing my farms and teching up with more armor, etc so my troops will be better prepared for when I make a move on the Sicilians. And I am in the process of readying more provinces for ship building so that my fleet will be much larger. Denmark and Freisland now have that capability, as well as when I don't need to pump out so soldiers every turn, I have Genoa, Tuscany and Venice (which gets a bonus for its ships by the way) also sometimes contributing. I do probably need to get a few more places ready for xbow and arbalester production, as currently Venice is the only one, though I have a few years for that yet.

I would suggest that you have not at all been economical in your conquests, and that you are maintaining difficult and unnecessary borders.

Well, yes and no. There are some usual choke points on the MTW map , but having less provinces does generally mean less problems when it comes to defending borders.

Make sure you rule the waves before you create an inter-continental empire!

Ah, yes, the dangers of far away provinces. I do hope to link up eventually, because I really would like to get
Tyrolia and Switzerland, but am not sure I would use pikemen (though I suppose with time and money it's possible to develop them). These provinces tend to be income losers, and thus are difficult to want to take earlier on and less you have plenty of extra men and money. I suppose I could be more ambitious and take some of the provinces farther west that you have mentioned (some of the coastal ones are nice for trade, and a few of the French ones are good farming areas) to eventually link up my provinces.

I was excommunicated and the monarch dropped from 7 to 2-3 influence.

Generally being excommed is a bad thing, not only for loyalty ratings in provinces, but also because all the Christian nations will now attack you, so unless you're fairly big and have a lot of troops to hold you over and you have enough to go and knock off the pope (though assassins can sometimes help for that too), your empire may come unhinged.

Thanks for the suggestions,

GA

[gaijinalways]

Continued with my 2nd "reality", finally made the Sicilians pay royally some 25 years ago or so, they're down to just Nicaea, Croatia, and Malta now. Took Serbia, Greece and Constantinople, with Constantinople holding nicely against the Eggies who tried to take it.

Finally crusaded to Palestine (lost it) and to Antioch (the reason the Eggies don't like me so much), which I still hold. Just passed 1205, starting to pump out arbs. The HRE decided to attack me, close battle (don't seem to have a lot of stellar generals, lost a few).

The English finished off the French (after I weakened them). Have largest navy, though English just sank some ships (some way to return the favor), time to retaliate next turn. Hope I haven't shipped too many troops out to Constantinople and Antioch as the English might start pressing me soon on the European continent. They hold Ireland, Scotland, Northumbria, Wales, Mercia, Wessex, Normandy, Britany, Aquitaine, Anjou, Ile de France, Champagne, and Toulouse. The HRE are a slim buffer in several places, but very slim as they are pretty weak (peasants only hold up for so long).

Had 12k per turn still coming in before the English backstabbing and over 400k in the bank! Might be time to hire some more friendly mercs...

Yours in warmongering,

GA

[PershsNhpios]

Sounds like you've got it in the bag. What you ought to do now is instigate a civil war in Italy, bring back a few of the dead factions and start all over again with the Horde on your back!

A similar suggestion would be to try Caravel mod. You will not regret it.

I was having a wonderful time playing the English, I had subdued France and was intending to make a fine, technologically advanced nation on the continent from which to strike out against the Holy Roman Empire, when all of a sudden the Scots invade.
The Scots are not a faction in Caravel, which retains all vanilla features. So yes, I was invaded by the Scottish Rebels and lost all of Britain because wouldn't you know it, my two provinces producing Hobilars - the only units I had which could counter valour 2 Highlanders - were Northumbria and Mercia.
Somehow the Scottish rebels had increased from about a stack to two stacks of Highlanders in forty years, and although I had two armies, these were both in southern France and consisted of Urban Militia with two battered units of Hobilars.

I was meaning to tell Gollum this, as I am sure he will find it amusing as I found it amusing and frustrating, but I certainly recommend you have a go at that if you are finding this Italian campaign too easy.

Or perhaps you like battering Europe so easily!

Anyway, please update us again when you can and post some pictures of all this!

[Durango]

@gaijinalways: Interesting insights there, I would like to know more

@Glenn: Have you played XL/Tyb in High as either the Genoese or the Venitians? If so, are you familiar with a man named
Don Petro De Verona?

[PershsNhpios]

I have not played these nations in High, yet this Don Petro de Verona does not sound like a man equal to the valour of any of the British, Irish or Iberian kingdoms I have played in that era, and he certainly would not be in the rank of Byzantium.

[Durango]

Don Petro is not concerned with valour, nor do any wordly matters enter into his schemes. He seeks only the suffering and
despair of men lost in their faith. All who stand in his path shall be destroyed.

He begins cleansing the world in 1205.

He hails from the Papal States.

He is a V.3 Inquisitor.

He is standing behind you now.

[gaijinalways]

Sorry guys, was away on a "real" little trip to Korea. In about 1221 now, and my bank account is shrinking. The Alomonds finally attacked me (at sea, we currently have no land borders). I have gotten quite a big bigger and have been bribing away provinces here and there.

The English followed the HRE example and attacked me and thus incurred my wrath. They are down to two split provinces now. I am still making money, and haven't put a halt on building military unit buildings yet, though I suppose I should start only building the more economic related buildings. Still pumping out ships, lost a few here and there. All of the other factions almost don't have any...or won't soon.

I have taken Denmark, Sweden Norway, Freisland, Saxony, Britany, Anjou, Burgandy, Flanders, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Wessex, Northumberland, Mercia, Provence, Toulouse, Greece and Constantinople,Croatia, Serbia, Corsica, Milan, Genoa, Tuscany, Venice, Sardinia, Naples and Sicily. I also successfully crusaded to Tripoli and Antioch. I am holding them, and plan to eventually march from Constantinople and strengthen my claim to most of the map

I now have some 225k in the bank, with only a 3k profit per year as only the Byz haven't attacked me yet. I was excommed briefly, and the pope later came back, so I might have to watch him as well as he is a lot stronger than before.

Nothing like total war....