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Thread: Gay Parenting
Something is swirling in my mind for quite some time now.
As non-humanitarian boundaries, at least in comparably civilized societies (Turkey not at a reasonable rate yet
), look to be disappearing, gay (take it as a term for both sexes) relationships are, legally, not despised; people with such tendencies are protected from harassment although it all comes down to the practicality. Anyway that's not the point of the thread.
None of us would, I guess, expect that it would just stay there, now that, in its natural course, it wouldn't suffice. Marriage is allowed in some countries, and frankly, the demand would eventually involve rights to parenting, and so it did.
As a naturalist -in my own understanding- myself, I accept what is supposed to be the way of the nature (sexual reproduction), as well as what comes with birth (homosexual tendency is one, I suppose) should be considered as tricks or treats from the nature, hence being natural as well.
Being gay, therefore, is "natural" from another "arm" of the same "nature guy" to me which makes me advocate that gays should be considered and treated no different than the heterosexuals. However, when it comes to parenting, *subjectively* stating that a child is nourished maternally and paternally in different ways, I'm quite skeptic about what kind of outcomes gay parenting may have on the sibling.
Is gay parenting too new to be observed about how kids grow out of such household or are there any paedological/psychological papers already that point some direction ? What are your thoughts on this ?
As non-humanitarian boundaries, at least in comparably civilized societies (Turkey not at a reasonable rate yet
), look to be disappearing, gay (take it as a term for both sexes) relationships are, legally, not despised; people with such tendencies are protected from harassment although it all comes down to the practicality. Anyway that's not the point of the thread.None of us would, I guess, expect that it would just stay there, now that, in its natural course, it wouldn't suffice. Marriage is allowed in some countries, and frankly, the demand would eventually involve rights to parenting, and so it did.
As a naturalist -in my own understanding- myself, I accept what is supposed to be the way of the nature (sexual reproduction), as well as what comes with birth (homosexual tendency is one, I suppose) should be considered as tricks or treats from the nature, hence being natural as well.
Being gay, therefore, is "natural" from another "arm" of the same "nature guy" to me which makes me advocate that gays should be considered and treated no different than the heterosexuals. However, when it comes to parenting, *subjectively* stating that a child is nourished maternally and paternally in different ways, I'm quite skeptic about what kind of outcomes gay parenting may have on the sibling.
Is gay parenting too new to be observed about how kids grow out of such household or are there any paedological/psychological papers already that point some direction ? What are your thoughts on this ?
Changed my mind after being proved wrong, having two devoted dads is something to envy.
They seem pretty normal. Other than odd teasing and uninformed knee-jerk from homophobes who despise homosexually full-stop, there has not been any significant differences. There was a study floating around where apparently homosexual parents were better, but I haven't actually read it myself so I cannot vouch on the validity of these claims.
The whole "they need an x role-model" doesn't really happen since these get substituted by other role-models in the community, like teachers or famous people. They do benefit over single-parents because there is more parent-child time.
I haven't really got much to say and there isn't anything significant that I have heard about.
The whole "they need an x role-model" doesn't really happen since these get substituted by other role-models in the community, like teachers or famous people. They do benefit over single-parents because there is more parent-child time.
I haven't really got much to say and there isn't anything significant that I have heard about.
The argument that a homosexual union lacks the mother/father figure is ridiculous considering the number of single moms and dads raising kids these days.
But meh, it is no surprise that conservative homo-haters are unaware of whats happening in the real world.
But meh, it is no surprise that conservative homo-haters are unaware of whats happening in the real world.
the statistics are quite clear that having two parents in stable relationship statistically guaranteed to bringer better outcomes for the kids............... i'm not sure it matters whether the parents are d00d's, gal's, or a mix.
Yeah, I feel I can blame all my shortcomings on my parents divorce.
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
Sorry, HoreTore, I can't see a conservative homo-hater around here. Why bring in a figure that has yet to be present within this discussion ? Do your ideas have to draw its energy from the stern disagreement/despise/ridicule you bear towards what/whom you oppose ?
Single moms and dads may be raising kids, of course, which is not the point. You can feed/shelter/provide education for anyone. I am rather concerned with how well it could be with gay parents (in a questioning manner). Yeah, a sexually "classic" family does not have to be the best family some kid can have. I just want to establish a rational idea on whether a family of gay parents is inherently more prone to flaws/issues with kid's mentality/social integration that could heavily affect his/her later life.
Single moms and dads may be raising kids, of course, which is not the point. You can feed/shelter/provide education for anyone. I am rather concerned with how well it could be with gay parents (in a questioning manner). Yeah, a sexually "classic" family does not have to be the best family some kid can have. I just want to establish a rational idea on whether a family of gay parents is inherently more prone to flaws/issues with kid's mentality/social integration that could heavily affect his/her later life.
My brother is gay. I grew up thinking homosexuals were just one more variety of people to know. No big deal at all.
That said, I don't think gay couples should be allowed to adopt children if conventional couples are available. The right of the child to a "normal" (mother and father) upbringing outweigh the desires the gay couple to raise a child.
That said, I don't think gay couples should be allowed to adopt children if conventional couples are available. The right of the child to a "normal" (mother and father) upbringing outweigh the desires the gay couple to raise a child.
Originally Posted by Beirut:
My brother is gay. I grew up thinking homosexuals were just one more variety of people to know. No big deal at all.
That said, I don't think gay couples should be allowed to adopt children if conventional couples are available. The right of the child to a "normal" (mother and father) upbringing outweigh the desires the gay couple to raise a child.
You think your brother is inherently a worse parent then any straight parent?My brother is gay. I grew up thinking homosexuals were just one more variety of people to know. No big deal at all.
That said, I don't think gay couples should be allowed to adopt children if conventional couples are available. The right of the child to a "normal" (mother and father) upbringing outweigh the desires the gay couple to raise a child.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
The argument that a homosexual union lacks the mother/father figure is ridiculous considering the number of single moms and dads raising kids these days.
This is true, and two wrongs don't make a right.The argument that a homosexual union lacks the mother/father figure is ridiculous considering the number of single moms and dads raising kids these days.
The best way to tackle the issue is to make divorce punishable by law, its just common sense for breaking a legal contract. Also not giving children sex education from primary school would be helpful, because thats just sick.
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
This is true, and two wrongs don't make a right.
The best way to tackle the issue is to make divorce punishable by law, its just common sense for breaking a legal contract. Also not giving children sex education from primary school would be helpful, because thats just sick.
lol. So punish the women who make the mistake of falling for a manipulative guy and make sure the kids don't know how babby is formed.This is true, and two wrongs don't make a right.
The best way to tackle the issue is to make divorce punishable by law, its just common sense for breaking a legal contract. Also not giving children sex education from primary school would be helpful, because thats just sick.
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
This is true, and two wrongs don't make a right.
The best way to tackle the issue is to make divorce punishable by law, its just common sense for breaking a legal contract. Also not giving children sex education from primary school would be helpful, because thats just sick.
I love your fire and brimstone side, Rhy. Especially considering its night time now, and I've had a few.... I might be a little...vulnerable....if you know what I mean. This is true, and two wrongs don't make a right.
The best way to tackle the issue is to make divorce punishable by law, its just common sense for breaking a legal contract. Also not giving children sex education from primary school would be helpful, because thats just sick.
Studies have been pretty clear on the subject.
Originally Posted by :
A Cambridge University developmental psychologist testified at a federal trial in San Francisco today that broad research has documented that children of same-sex parents are just as likely as those of heterosexual parents to be well-adjusted.
"Studies have found children do not require both a male and female parent," testified Michael Lamb, who heads Cambridge's Department of Social and Developmental Psychology.
The biggest challenge to same-sex parenting is a bigotted environment.A Cambridge University developmental psychologist testified at a federal trial in San Francisco today that broad research has documented that children of same-sex parents are just as likely as those of heterosexual parents to be well-adjusted.
"Studies have found children do not require both a male and female parent," testified Michael Lamb, who heads Cambridge's Department of Social and Developmental Psychology.
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name:
You think your brother is inherently a worse parent then any straight parent?
No.You think your brother is inherently a worse parent then any straight parent?
But my brother isn't the issue. The child is the issue. And a child has a right to a mother and a father.
Originally Posted by Beirut:
No.
But my brother isn't the issue. The child is the issue. And a child has a right to a mother and a father.
I hate this phrase because it was over used in middle school when some counselor came in and said it 9,001 times but, "Every child has a right to be loved." I don't see that that "Every child has a right to be loved by a mother and father and if none are available then by a same sex couple."No.
But my brother isn't the issue. The child is the issue. And a child has a right to a mother and a father.
A child has a right to be taken care of. Could you please explain the reasoning behind why there is a right to have heterosexual couple parents above homosexual ones?
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name:
A child has a right to be taken care of. Could you please explain the reasoning behind why there is a right to have heterosexual couple parents above homosexual ones?
There isn't any. Whole mother-father thing is overrated,A child has a right to be taken care of. Could you please explain the reasoning behind why there is a right to have heterosexual couple parents above homosexual ones?
The guy speaking to his lawmakers whould have done background checks on each one to see how many of them were serial divorcees, and then called them on it.
Originally Posted by Beirut:
And a child has a right to a mother and a father.
Really? Since when? You should have told that to my dad. Haven't seen the bastard in a decade.And a child has a right to a mother and a father.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Yeah, I feel I can blame all my shortcomings on my parents divorce.
/sarcasm
while that's lovely, and I am delighted you turned into such a well adjusted* young man, your triumph as a single statistic does nothing to dispute the proven fact that kids with two 'loving' parents have better outcomes relative to kids with only one full-time parent.Yeah, I feel I can blame all my shortcomings on my parents divorce.
/sarcasm
*rofl
Sexual orientation is far less important than many other factors in who makes a good parent / good outcomes for the children.
Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah:
Really? Since when? You should have told that to my dad. Haven't seen the bastard in a decade.
Look at the bright side, you wouldn't be the real thing if you did. It's the native-american experience it seems, Sorry to hear it though, counting my blessings even if mine died pretty horribly, cancer sucksReally? Since when? You should have told that to my dad. Haven't seen the bastard in a decade.
Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah:
Really? Since when? You should have told that to my dad. Haven't seen the bastard in a decade.
If my seperated wife has her way, neither will I. Obligations? In stone. Rights? For negotiation.Really? Since when? You should have told that to my dad. Haven't seen the bastard in a decade.
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk:
Sexual orientation is far less important than many other factors in who makes a good parent / good outcomes for the children.
agreed, nothing i said above could be said to dispute that.Sexual orientation is far less important than many other factors in who makes a good parent / good outcomes for the children.
Human beings are fundamentally flawed, I make mistakes, my wife makes mistakes. When one of our girls ask us a question we don't always know the right answer, so in lieu of that we attempt to give the best answer; it may not be perfect but then again, we're not perfect people. I don't know anyone who is, straight, gay, or otherwise.
However I trust in the bond I have with my family, I have too, because I would probably go crazy if I tried to make a guess out how our daughters are going to turn out when they become adults. We support and nurture them, we love them with every fiber of our being, we would throw ourselves to the lions if it meant our daughters future was assured. But it's not, nothing is, so we have to have faith in them while trying to lead by example.
The strength of one's character is more important than their sexuality, will those children be loved and nurtured? That's important. There's a lot of children out there that need that, I don't think they'd care whether it was from a man and a woman, two men, or two women. It's really painting a lot of people with a very broad brush.
What would your answer be if I said two White people can raise a child better than two Asians? See where I'm getting with this?
However I trust in the bond I have with my family, I have too, because I would probably go crazy if I tried to make a guess out how our daughters are going to turn out when they become adults. We support and nurture them, we love them with every fiber of our being, we would throw ourselves to the lions if it meant our daughters future was assured. But it's not, nothing is, so we have to have faith in them while trying to lead by example.
The strength of one's character is more important than their sexuality, will those children be loved and nurtured? That's important. There's a lot of children out there that need that, I don't think they'd care whether it was from a man and a woman, two men, or two women. It's really painting a lot of people with a very broad brush.
What would your answer be if I said two White people can raise a child better than two Asians? See where I'm getting with this?
I will readily admit I have been very dumb on this. But it isn't about me, nor is the gay activists outcry over percieved injustice.
Originally Posted by Furunculus:
while that's lovely, and I am delighted you turned into such a well adjusted* young man, your triumph as a single statistic does nothing to dispute the proven fact that kids with two 'loving' parents have better outcomes relative to kids with only one full-time parent.
*rofl
The majority of kids these days will be kids coming from divorced families.while that's lovely, and I am delighted you turned into such a well adjusted* young man, your triumph as a single statistic does nothing to dispute the proven fact that kids with two 'loving' parents have better outcomes relative to kids with only one full-time parent.
*rofl
I seriously doubt that civilizaton will collapse.
Moving was a much bigger issue for me than my parents divorce. Should we stop people from moving if thwy have kids well adjusted to their home enviroment?
A lot of it is just luck of the draw, I've known people that were raised by nominally good, loving, nurturing families; and one child went on to be successful, and another child raised within the same family has done time in prison. Likewise I've met people who were raised by complete jackasses, and one turned out to be successful, and another one sits on his computer all day and doesn't do crap. Just because a child shares the same DNA as the parents doesn't mean they're going to be carbon copies of them.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
The majority of kids these days will be kids coming from divorced families. I seriously doubt that civilizaton will collapse.
Moving was a much bigger issue for me than my parents divorce. Should we stop people from moving if thwy have kids well adjusted to their home enviroment?
again you pick an individual example, yourself, and promote it as a refutation of a broader statistical trend that has been observed and evidenced. that's just wrong d00d.The majority of kids these days will be kids coming from divorced families. I seriously doubt that civilizaton will collapse.
Moving was a much bigger issue for me than my parents divorce. Should we stop people from moving if thwy have kids well adjusted to their home enviroment?
no, because that is exactly the kind of nannying government we don't want, whereas the point about child-outcomes from single vs dual parents results from the fact that in Britain we have a benefits system that actively penalises parents for staying together. government interference in personal life should always be kept to an absolute minimum, even if it causes a social good, but it should be treated with scathing contempt if it manages to produce a worse outcome for society.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
The majority of kids these days will be kids coming from divorced families.
I seriously doubt that civilizaton will collapse.
Because civilisation is insensistive by nature, what about the fathers who are actually denied seeing their children, by the same lot that has a mutual orgasm over gay parenting. Feminism.The majority of kids these days will be kids coming from divorced families.
I seriously doubt that civilizaton will collapse.
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