Gay Parenting

[Beirut]

I am going to go along with Beirut here and give him the benefit of the doubt. Right now I am planning on knocking up my girlfriend so I can acquire all the common sense about kids that he obviously gained by shooting his man load into his woman.

That's a charming way to reference another man's wife.

[a completely inoffensive name]

That's a charming way to reference another man's wife.

EDIT: Nah, forget it. I'm not joining this thread just to sling insults.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

[PanzerJaeger]

[Strike For The South]

Insecurities about what? Having to go to work and earn a living to pay for my kids' food instead of sitting in the coffee shop bantering about the ring of Gyges with the waitress?

Yeah, I feel terrible.

Why do we have to devolve into this?

Not everyone who is against you is some ivory tower libreal, My family is just as blue collar as yours

I'm simply not being stubborn

[Beirut]

Why do we have to devolve into this?

Not everyone who is against you is some ivory tower libreal, My family is just as blue collar as yours

I'm simply not being stubborn

I am being stubborn. Kids need a mother and a father. If there is anything worth being stubborn about, I think this is a good one.

[ajaxfetish]

I am being stubborn. Kids need a mother and a father. If there is anything worth being stubborn about, I think this is a good one.

Kids' need for loving parents trumps their 'need' for one and only one of those parents to have a penis.

Ajax

[Beirut]

Gotta admit, this is the strangest group of people I have ever come across. I have never seen people not only against the idea that a mother and father is best for a child, but hostile to it.

Another fall of man, as King Henry would say.

[PanzerJaeger]

Gotta admit, this is the strangest group of people I have ever come across. I have never seen people not only against the idea that a mother and father is best for a child, but hostile to it.

Another fall of man, as King Henry would say.

There is little to be gained from trying to frame this as pro/anti mother and father. No one is questioning the legitimacy of that setup. I am against the idea that a same sex couple cannot be equally effective at parenting.

Maybe it would be more productive if you shared some specific problems that you believe arise from same sex parenting. What can a mother and father give (materially, mentally, emotionally, or any other way) a child that two fathers or mothers cannot? How exactly is it an inferior family situation?

[Samurai Waki]

Gotta admit, this is the strangest group of people I have ever come across. I have never seen people not only against the idea that a mother and father is best for a child, but hostile to it.

Another fall of man, as King Henry would say.

I don't think anyone is hostile to that, as that is the norm. You've been hostile to the idea that anyone but a man and a woman can raise a child, and that's a short-sighted and totally unreal expectation you're putting on a society that can't cope with the reality that there's more children than parents that are willing to care for them..

[Askthepizzaguy]

I've been part of some twisted debates in my time, but never one as demented as this.

Having to defend the concept of a child being raised by a mother and father... good God. We might might as well cash our chips in right now and hope the next species does better.

Beirut, you're faithfully committed to the rightness of your position, and I respect that.

However, most of your posts on this subject have been:

1. Assertions that you're correct.
2. Musings on how absurd it is that others feel differently.
3. Argument from "common sense" (meaning: your opinion, as others have sense, and are common, and they disagree...)
4. Openly dismissing ALL scientific evidence that someone on the fence might consider as valid information to have a discussion with, by painting everything as unreliable. "Well I've seen studies that actually prove that chocolate is better than carrots!" Isn't really a serious argument, and you know that what you're saying is baloney when you go there.
5. Stating that you know what's best for every child, without being able to articulate why your position is better.
6. Repeating that you're correct and it's all common sense, and how absurd this all is, and that you don't need a scientist to tell you things because you have common sense.... etc, etc, etc.

I'm sure we all understand by now what your position is, and that you're very certain you're correct. That said, you haven't offered more to the discussion than that. That is the thing which is twisted about the debate; not your opinion or others'. It's the fact that this isn't even a debate, but an attempted one, and a failed one.

I am sure it is disconcerting to see something that you feel should be common sense questioned so widely and so often; I feel that way about treating gay people equally. Of course we should.... why shouldn't we? It's common sense.

But we get nowhere in a discussion if both sides claim common sense is their argument. I'm certain we can do more than that here.

[Riedquat]

When I've read Beirut's first post felt the same many of you, but after reading this entire thread I fail to see how none of you understand what he is saying... really! Considering I don't speak English at all, that is a lot to say...

All you think its better for the child to have gay parents than straight ones? Because all is resumed there... he isn't saying don't give kids to gays at all... nor I, just lets try to accomplish the right of the kids to have a mom and a dad... old fashioned ones...

As a bigot I would say, first show me a gay couple making a child naturally and then we speak about their natural right to be dads.... umm... that would be my dad speaking...

Edit: and thats the whole point! this is not about their right to be dads but about the right of the child to have a family; a couple years ago people of same sex weren't able to form a family, not on the society eyes; now we are discussing if they are able to rise kids, and nobody said they shouldn't...

Having two couples, one straight and the other gay, both wanting to a adopt, both with the same socio-cultural profile, same economical status, (same race and religion), are you telling here you will roll a dice to decide which couple gets the child? Really? Wow...