Gay Parenting

[Askthepizzaguy]

Actually, I'm not sure I ever said that. What I said, ad what I will continue to say, is that this has nothing to do with the parents, it has everything to do with the kid. And, for ump-teenth time, a kid is better off with a mother and a father.

I know you've said it before, Beirut. But saying it umpteen times doesn't make you any more correct.

There are well more kids waiting for adoption than there are parents waiting to adopt, if I am not mistaken. Every straight couple who meets the criteria who wants a child will get one. I believe every gay couple who meets the criteria should as well.

Even then, there will still be kids without parents, sorry to say.

I do not believe it is the false choice you're making it out to be. Gays are not going to stop straights from adopting. They aren't going to get preferential treatment, either. And, sorry to say, there will likely be bigots in the adoption agencies who rarely ever allow gay couples to adopt, even if the law says they should be treated equally.

You're probably going to get your wish even if the law is changed to reflect equality. But I think it's still a shame.

The observation of, and the input from, both genders in their roles as parents is crucial for a child, And though it really pizzes some people off to hear this, it is normal as well. It is healthy and normal for a child to see a mother and father love each other, and is it also healthy and normal for a child to watch the conflicts, reasoning, and reconciliation between a mother and father. The learning from, and the interaction with, a mother and a father is how a kid learns to deal best with real life because real life has both sexes.

I am unmoved by arguments related to "normalcy". The child has already lost their parents and is sitting in some orphanage or foster home. Their lives are far from normal.

I don't like how the only way they can be happy, now, is that they have to have the perfect 50's-style nuclear family with 1.5 other kids in the house, 1 dog and 1 cat, and a father who smokes a pipe and a wife who cleans house and bakes. And while you're not arguing for that, you are basically saying the only way you'll permit these kids to be happy is if they are raised by parents you find fit, when the data and real life experiences show that parents you don't think are as good as the ones you prefer, do just as fine a job raising the kids.

Sorry, I feel you are wrong, even if your heart is in the right place. Normal isn't a moral value, it's argument from popularity. And I really gotta tell ya, I've never found popular opinion to be all that enlightened.

The kids have all the rights and kids have a right to a mother and father.

Yep, and if their new mother and father are both women, that is infinitely better than staring at a wall in an orphanage and getting no presents on Christmas. And I am very, very unconvinced that the fact that they are both women makes them unworthy of consideration, when there is a male and female as the alternative. I don't see it, even if you do, and I am still unmoved by the soaring rhetoric about how only men can teach you how to play catch, and only women can show you how to bake, and how a child has a god-given right to learn how to play catch and bake cookies.

I don't buy it. I think it is sexism.

[Beirut]

I know you've said it before, Beirut. But saying it umpteen times doesn't make you any more correct.

I was correct the first time as well as the ump-teenth time.

Yep, and if their new mother and father are both women, that is infinitely better than staring at a wall in an orphanage and getting no presents on Christmas. And I am very, very unconvinced that the fact that they are both women makes them unworthy of consideration, when there is a quateach you how to play catch, and only women can show you how to bake, and how a child has a god-given right to learn how to play catch and bake cookies.

I don't buy it. I think it is sexism.

Of course it is sexism. The sexes are different. Haven't you noticed?

Besides, I don't think I ever said children should not be adopted by gay parents, only that a kid should go to a mother and father first if a mother and father are are available because a mother and father are inherently better for a child than a father and a father.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was correct the first time as well as the ump-teenth time.

Says you, and you be wrong on all counts.

Of course it is sexism. The sexes are different. Haven't you noticed?

"No, you are wrong."

-"No, you are wrong."

Repeat ad infinitum. This is getting nowhere.

[Beirut]

"No, you are wrong."

-"No, you are wrong."

Repeat ad infinitum. This is getting nowhere.

And you were expecting... what?

[Beskar]

"No, you are wrong."

-"No, you are wrong."

Repeat ad infinitum. This is getting nowhere.

And you were expecting... what from Beirut?

[Beirut]

And you were expecting... what from Beirut?

Perhaps something other than the new age Dr. Pixiedust internet studies you lean on to support your feel-good idea of the week.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Of course it is sexism. The sexes are different. Haven't you noticed?

No, you are forgetting that it only appears that way because scientists have an agenda to exaggerate gender differences.

For some reason, it is OK when liberals say that when presented with a scientific study, but when anyone else does it is is "anti-intellectual".

[Beirut]

No, you are forgetting that it only appears that way because scientists have an agenda to exaggerate gender differences.

Exaggerate gender differences?

They don't need to be exaggerated, they are different enough already.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No, you are forgetting that it only appears that way because scientists have an agenda to exaggerate gender differences.

For some reason, it is OK when liberals say that when presented with a scientific study, but when anyone else does it is is "anti-intellectual".

Rhyf, gender is the social construct and used in contrast to biological sex differences. Everyone says there are big gender differences, but people who know something about history don't take them seriously, because there's nothing to stake a claim of legitimacy on (as if "natural" is a great place either, but that's another story) given how drastically they change with time and culture. Don't try and create smug straw men and misuse terminology at the same time

I'm fairly confidant that I've read much more than you have about the scientific study of it, so really you are just taking a page out of beirut's book here. In science the results and worth of studies are argued about. You are promoting bad science because you like the conclusion, and equating our reasoned disagreement with it to beirut's automatic rejection of science about which no methodological complaints have been raised so that you don't have to defend it.

[Beirut]

Rhyf, gender is the social construct and used in contrast to biological sex differences. Everyone says there are big gender differences, but people who know something about history don't take them seriously, because there's nothing to stake a claim of legitimacy on (as if "natural" is a great place either, but that's another story) given how drastically they change with time and culture. Don't try and create smug straw men and misuse terminology at the same time

I'm fairly confidant that I've read much more than you have about the scientific study of it, so really you are just taking a page out of beirut's book here. In science the results and worth of studies are argued about. You are promoting bad science because you like the conclusion, and equating our reasoned disagreement with it to beirut's automatic rejection of science about which no methodological complaints have been raised so that you don't have to defend it.

Ah, but sasaki, books and studies do not raise children - people do.

Less books, sasaki, more real life.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ah, but sasaki, books and studies do not raise children - people do.

Less books, sasaki, more real life.

Every post of yours has been "Nuh uh! ".

It's childish.

[Beirut]

Every post of yours has been "Nuh uh! ".

It's childish.

We are taling about children.