Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
I am of the opnion that you have a lot to learn about real life.
Now you're not even pretending to respond to my questions.


"Mom and dad" is a bigoted platitude?
Yes. It is thrown around in the same circles that use the "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" rhetoric. The aim is the same - to deligitimize homosexual relationships.


Seriously - get off the computer, get a woman, and live a little. I wasn't kidding when I said you have a lot to learn about real life.
I would suggest that you get out of the backwoods and learn about modern life.


I know what you say they are. And I know that you like to haul them out and wave them from the grandstands yelling "Proof! Proof!". But I wonder if you have actually read what you wave around, and if you really understand it, and if you have the life experience to correlate that data with the real world.

I think you are ignoring the real world in favour of what someone with a title told you to think.
Thank you for your concern. I have read them thoroughly and I understand the strengths and constraints of such research, which is more than you can say.


Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki
Here I'll debate pj in your place:
I would respond with this. (Apologies for the format, I directly copy/pasted from a PDF.)

One criticism of this body of research has been that
the research lacks external validity because samples
studied to date may not be representative of the
larger population of lesbian and gay parents
(Belcastro et al., 1993). Recent research on lesbian
and gay adults has drawn on population-based samples
(e.g., Cochran, 2001), and research on the offspring
of lesbian and gay parents has begun to
employ the same approach (e.g., Golombok, Perry,
Burston,Murray,Mooney-Somers, Stevens, &
Golding, 2003;Wainright, Russell, & Patterson,
2004). Criticisms about nonsystematic sampling
have also been addressed by studying samples drawn
from known populations, so that response rates can
be calculated (e.g., Brewaeys, Ponjaert, van Hall, &
Golombok, 1997; Chan, Brooks, Raboy, & Patterson,
1998; Chan, Raboy, & Patterson, 1998). Thus, contemporary
research on children of lesbian and gay
parents involves a wider array of sampling techniques
than did earlier studies.

Research on children of lesbian and gay parents
has also been criticized for using poorly matched
or no control groups in designs that call for such
controls. Particularly notable in this category was
the tendency of early studies to compare development
among children of a group of divorced lesbian
mothers, many of whom were living with lesbian
partners, to that among children of a group of
divorced heterosexual mothers who were not currently
living with heterosexual partners. The relevance
of this criticism has been greatly reduced as
research has expanded to explore life in a wider
array of lesbian mother and gay father families
(many of which have never lived through the
divorce of a heterosexual couple), and as newer
studies begin to include a wider array of control
groups. Thus, contemporary research on children of
lesbian and gay parents involves a wider array of
research designs (and hence, control groups) than
did earlier studies.

Another criticism has been that, although there is
considerable diversity within lesbian and gay parenting
communities (Barrett & Tasker, 2001; Morris,
Balsam, & Rothblum, 2002), research has often
focused on narrowly defined samples. Early studies
did generally focus on well-educated, middle class
families, but more recent research has included participants
from a wider array of ethnic and socioeconomic
backgrounds (e.g.,Wainright et al., 2004).
Recent studies have been conducted not only in the
United States, but also in the United Kingdom, in
Belgium, and in the Netherlands (e.g., Bos, van
Balen, & van den Boom, 2003, 2004; Brewaeys,
Ponjaert, & Van Hall, 1997; Golombok et al., 1997,
2003; Tasker & Golombok, 1997; Vanfraussen,
Ponjaert-Kristoffersen, & Brewaeys, 2003). Thus,
contemporary research on children of lesbian and
gay parents involves a greater diversity of families
than did earlier studies.

...

Lesbians and Gay Men as Parents

Beliefs that lesbian and gay adults are not fit parents
likewise have no empirical foundation (Anderssen,
Amlie, & Ytteroy, 2002; Brewaeys & van Hall, 1997;
Parks, 1998; Patterson, 2000; Patterson & Chan, 1996;
Perrin, 2002; Stacey & Biblarz, 2001; Tasker, 1999;
Victor & Fish, 1995). Lesbian and heterosexual
women have not been found to differ markedly either
in their overall mental health or in their approaches
to child rearing (Bos et al., 2004; Kweskin & Cook,
1982; Lyons, 1983; Miller, Jacobsen, & Bigner, 1981;
Mucklow & Phelan, 1979; Pagelow, 1980; Parks, 1998;
Patterson, 2001; Rand, Graham, & Rawlings, 1982;
Siegenthaler & Bigner, 2000; Thompson,McCandless,
& Strickland, 1971). Similarly, lesbians' romantic and
sexual relationships with other women have not been
found to detract from their ability to care for their
children (Bos et al., 2004; Chan et al., 1998b; Pagelow,
1980). Lesbian couples who are parenting together
have most often been found to divide household and
family labor relatively evenly and to report satisfac-
tion with their couple relationships (Bos et al., 2004;
Brewaeys et al., 1997; Chan, et al., 1998a; Ciano-
Boyce & Shelley-Sireci, 2002; Hand, 1991; Johnson &
O'Connor, 2002; Koepke, Hare, & Moran, 1992;
Osterweil, 1991; Patterson, 1995a; Sullivan, 1996;
Tasker & Golombok, 1998; Vanfraussen, Ponjaert-
Kristoffersen, & Brewaeys, 2003). Research on gay
fathers likewise suggests that they are likely to divide
the work involved in child care relatively evenly and
that they are happy with their couple relationships
(Johnson & O'Connor, 2002; McPherson, 1993).

The results of some studies suggest that lesbian mothers'
and gay fathers' parenting skills may be superior
to those of matched heterosexual couples. For
instance, Flaks, Fischer,Masterpasqua, and Joseph
(1995) reported that lesbian couples' parenting awareness
skills were stronger than those of heterosexual
couples. This was attributed to greater parenting
awareness among lesbian nonbiological mothers than
among heterosexual fathers. In one study, Brewaeys
and her colleagues (1997) likewise reported more
favorable patterns of parent–child interaction among
lesbian as compared to heterosexual parents, but in
another, they found greater similarities (Vanfraussen,
Ponjaert-Kristoffersen, & Brewaeys, 2003). A recent
study of 256 lesbian and gay parent families found
that, in contrast to patterns characterizing the majority
of American parents, very few lesbian and gay parents
reported any use of physical punishment (such as
spanking) as a disciplinary technique; instead, they
were likely to report use of positive techniques such as
reasoning (Johnson & O'Connor, 2002). Certainly,
research has found no reasons to believe lesbian
mothers or gay fathers to be unfit parents (Armesto,
2002; Barret & Robinson, 1990; Bigner & Bozett, 1990;
Bigner & Jacobsen, 1989a, 1989b; Bos et al., 2003,
2004; Bozett, 1980, 1989; Patterson, 1997; Patterson &
Chan, 1996; Sbordone, 1993; Tasker & Golombok,
1997; Victor & Fish, 1995;Weston, 1991). On the contrary,
results of research suggest that lesbian and gay
parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide
supportive home environments for children.
And this, which was published in 2010 and is not based on older studies or methods. Children in this study were shown to actually score higher, on average, than their peers in social and academic competence, and lower in aggression and social problems.

The US National Longitudinal Lesbian
Family Study (NLLFS) was initiated in
1986 to provide prospective data on
a cohort of American lesbian families
from the time the children were
conceived until they reach adulthood.
21–27 At its inception, all NLLFS
mothers identified as lesbian. In this
article, the psychological adjustment
of the 17-year-old NLLFS offspring
who were conceived through DI and
reared in planned lesbian families is
compared through maternal reports
with those of an age-matched normative
sample of American teenagers.
Within the NLLFS sample, we analyze
the association of adolescent wellbeing
as reflected in Child Behavior
Checklist (CBCL) scores with (1)
sperm donor status (having a known,
as-yet-unknown, or permanently unknown
donor); (2) parental relationship
continuity (whether the offspring’s
mothers are together or
separated); and (3) experiences
of stigma.

CONCLUSIONS: Adolescents who have been reared in lesbian-mother
families since birth demonstrate healthy psychological adjustment.
These findings have implications for the clinical care of adolescents
and for pediatricians who are consulted on matters that pertain to
same-sex parenting. Pediatrics 2010;126:000