Gay Parenting

[ajaxfetish]

Indeed. But they all have one thing in common: they're female. Or do females hold no worth in your opinion?

. . .

I fail to understand what appears to be a thundering lack of respect for women on your part.

. . .

Walk into a women's lib center and annnouce to the crowd that nothing other than the posssesion of a vagina marks any of them as special.

How you're getting any of this from PJ's posts I can't begin to imagine.

Ajax

[Rhyfelwyr]

I think Beirut is using a technique where you try to take an usual angle to steal the morally righteous position. For example, PJ's liberal take on things (on this matter anyway) makes Beirut appear like the bad guy, so Beirut turns it round by making it look like PJ does not treat women with respect, thus stealing the mantle for being able to have an outburst of moral outrage.

Or for another example, the abortion thread. HoreTore and other liberals had the morally righteous position defending women's rights, with Vuk as the bad guy. So Vuk turned it round by making it look like abortion in fact picked on minority groups eg blacks, stealing the right to moral indignation.

It's a good technique but not entirely honest (in both cases, since neither PJ or HoreTore were doing what they were accused of).

I avoid it and just come accross openly as a , I prefer things that way.

[Beirut]

How you're getting any of this from PJ's posts I can't begin to imagine.

Ajax

I guess I just have a better imagination than you.

It is clear he is saying that beyond the biological factory the female supplies, ending in the fetus passing through the vagina and into the world, the/a mother can then be permanently removed from the equation without any consequences to the child. I say that that is false. And If I spoke every language in the world, I would repeat that it is false in every language of the world.

It is natural, it is good, it is better, and it is best that a child have a mother and a father. That's it. That's all. Period. Done. Finished. Clear as the summer sun and set in stone. Have a nice day and enjoy the trip.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I share Beirut's exasperation here, the differences between men and women are to me something very obvious and something that we see and experience every day. I gave some studies and could blitz the place with them but they just get dismissed, at the end of the day you shouldn't even need them, has everyone gone crazy?

[miotas]

It is clear he is saying that beyond the biological factory the female supplies, ending in the fetus passing through the vagina and into the world, the/a mother can then be permanently removed from the equation without any consequences to the child. I say that that is false. And If I spoke every language in the world, I would repeat that it is false in every language of the world.

In all fairness I could just as easily say that it is "clear" that a father has no worth as a parent beyond simply being a sperm donor. Each individual parent could never be just replaced by any other random off the street. My mother could not be simply replaced by any other person (be that person a hetero woman, a gay man, a lesbian woman, a hetero man or other) since her personality infulenced me in many ways that no other induvidual could replicate.

But say we are facing the horrible situation of a child orphaned at birth or a mother unable or unwilling to raise a child and that child winds up in "the system" as so many kids are. In this case the biological mother was unfortunately just the carry case for the foetus and any other willing and suitable parents can step in.

[Beirut]

In all fairness I could just as easily say that it is "clear" that a father has no worth as a parent beyond simply being a sperm donor. Each individual parent could never be just replaced by any other random off the street. My mother could not be simply replaced by any other person (be that person a hetero woman, a gay man, a lesbian woman, a hetero man or other) since her personality infulenced me in many ways that no other induvidual could replicate.

I sent a copy of that to your mother. She has a 27 metric tons of homemade chocolate chip cookies waiting for you.

But say we are facing the horrible situation of a child orphaned at birth or a mother unable or unwilling to raise a child and that child winds up in "the system" as so many kids are. In this case the biological mother was unfortunately just the carry case for the foetus and any other willing and suitable parents can step in.

I never said gay parents should not be allowed to adopt, nor did I say that gay parents could not be good parents. I did say that having a mother and a father is inherently better for a child than having two parents of the same sex.