Gay Parenting

[PanzerJaeger]

And.... that warm fuzzy feeling just evaporated.

Tennessee state senate passes 'Don't Say Gay' bill.

The Tennessee Senate passed a bill on Friday that would bar teachers from discussing homosexuality with elementary and middle school students.

Under the legislation, dubbed by critics as the "don't say gay" bill, any instruction in public classrooms will be "limited exclusively to age-appropriate natural human reproduction science."

Republican Stacey Campfield, the bill's sponsor, says "homosexuals don't naturally reproduce" and has argued families should decide when its appropriate to talk with their children about homosexuality.

But gay rights activists are blasting the legislation, which passed 6-3, as a form of discrimination.

It "limits what teachers and students are able to discuss in the classroom," Ben Byers of the Tennessee Equality Project told LBGTQ Nation. "It means they can't talk about gay issues or sexuality even with students who may be gay or have gay family."

It's unlikely that the bill will be taken up by the House before lawmakers adjourn this spring, but Campfield said he would push it forward in 2012.

The bill, which was approved 19-11, passed the same day as Gallup released a poll revealing that American attitudes towards homosexuality are changing.

For the first time in Gallup polling history, the majority of Americans—53% believe same-sex marriage should be legal.

Passage of the bill would make Tennessee the first state to enact such legislation.

Initially, the bill read that no students will "provide any instruction or material that discusses sexual orientation other than heterosexuality." Campfield said some of his colleagues were uncomfortable the language.

"There's more than one way to skin a cat," Campfield said after the legislation passed. "I got what I wanted."

[Samurai Waki]

is it just me or does Stacy Campfield look incredibly gay?

[Rhyfelwyr]

I think its funny that he's called "Stacey"...

[Shibumi]

Louis, the question runs deeper than one report. And then there is of course the fact that you can not really accuse Sweden of being worse without similar data from the USA.

I read the relevant parts of the report now, and violence seem more spread than I thought. Most of the violence though has been pushes and stuff (not that that is much good either). The Gay Organization in Sweden had a huge drive some years ago to raise the awareness, urging their members to report any kind of abuse. I think that more or less sky rocketed the statistics.

Had a talk with an American friend who is gay, and he claim that the situation for gays are way worse in the states. Not evidence as such, I know, but at least here the gays do not have much/any administrative obstacles.

I am not saying Sweden is perfect when it comes to this issue, but I do claim that it is better here. And again, if you want to compare you really have to show the statistics from both involved parties, not just the one.


Centurion1, Over reacting much are we? I have not made any judgement of you, and all I know of you is what I can tell from your posts.

[Fragony]

Do mind that harassment is also included, not half of Swedish gays are beaten up on yearly basis. But don't we all know who's doing it, anyways.

[Shibumi]

Do mind that harassment is also included, not half of Swedish gays are beaten up on yearly basis. But don't we all know who's doing it, anyways.

I skipped that part, but yes, you are indeed right.

Another way to look at the report would be to say that about half of the gays can be so openly without even being harassed in a whole year..

[ajaxfetish]

Louis, the question runs deeper than one report. And then there is of course the fact that you can not really accuse Sweden of being worse without similar data from the USA.

I don't think Louis was claiming that gay discrimination in Sweden is worse than in the USA. He was simply demonstrating that your original claim--that gay rights are a total non-issue there--is false.

Ajax

[Shibumi]

I don't think Louis was claiming that gay discrimination in Sweden is worse than in the USA. He was simply demonstrating that your original claim--that gay rights are a total non-issue there--is false.

Ajax

Everything is relative I guess.

[ajaxfetish]

Everything is relative I guess.

And if you wanted to dredge up some comparable American data, then you might have a point to make.

Ajax

[Louis VI the Fat]

Louis, the question runs deeper than one report. And then there is of course the fact that you can not really accuse Sweden of being worse without similar data from the USA.

I read the relevant parts of the report now, and violence seem more spread than I thought. Most of the violence though has been pushes and stuff (not that that is much good either). The Gay Organization in Sweden had a huge drive some years ago to raise the awareness, urging their members to report any kind of abuse. I think that more or less sky rocketed the statistics.

Had a talk with an American friend who is gay, and he claim that the situation for gays are way worse in the states. Not evidence as such, I know, but at least here the gays do not have much/any administrative obstacles.

I am not saying Sweden is perfect when it comes to this issue, but I do claim that it is better here. And again, if you want to compare you really have to show the statistics from both involved parties, not just the one.

In general, I have little doubt Sweden is more tolerant of gays than America.

I protested what I thought was unfait criticism over a video. The Texas video to me does not show a backwards place, full of petty religious-conservative ignorants. To me it showed something entirely else: that (again) America has managed to reinvent itself. If, of all places, in Texas people will openly stand up for a homosexual then indeed somthing has changed.

It has been my subjective view that homophobia is well past its heyday of about a decade ago, the first few years of past decade. My spidey sense about America being the world's greatest since Alexis, that Gallup poll hidden in PJ's post provided a nice confirmation of my subjective impression:

The [Tennessee] bill, which was approved 19-11, passed the same day as Gallup released a poll revealing that American attitudes towards homosexuality are changing.

For the first time in Gallup polling history, the majority of Americans—53% believe same-sex marriage should be legal.

A majority is now in favour of same-sex marriage. This is the more important realisation about America. A fierce debate has been waged, is still raging, with many pro and many con. But the direction ios clearly towards openness, towards acceptance, towards tolerance.

[Shibumi]

Wow, we can not just make one post, can we?

I will summarize.

1. This debate did not start with ME saying Sweden is great - it started with you saying:

It shows that Americans are always more open, friendly, and moral than most everybody else. Yes, moral. It is the European who forever fails to understand that the American struggles to live life right, to do good, to do what is right. Unlike the European. Whose morality is mostly a thin veneer, a social necessity, kept up out of fear for being caught, which is never far away from being cast away when opportunity presents itself.

Just like in the God debate, the responsibility of facts on the table is on your side.

2. You then went on to show statistics of Sweden (horrid one I might add). However, you completely forgot that you can not compare two countries without having the same data for both. Kind of on an intellectual level of:
Shibumi: My apple is better than yours from what I can tell from the apple handbook.
Louis: No my apple is better - see - here I have a report showing your apple has flaws.
Shibumi: Can I see a report on your apple?
Louis: Uhm.. no..
Shibumi: ...
louis: WIN!

Quite obviously, I do not applaud your logic here.

3. Ajaxfetish for some reason thought I had made the initial claim that Sweden was the best. But no, as should be rather evident I have just argued against your initial post - go back to "1" to see it again. I have not said Sweden is perfect, nor do I think it is. I do think it is a lot of better when it comes to this though.

4. Your, as you put it, "influential" report showed that a gay couple could walk hand in hand for a year without being harassed. Cred to Sweden! Did it show it was all perfect - nope. But you can not use that report to say Sweden is worse than the US, when in fact Sweden is a front runner in gay rights. Granted, we have lots left to do - but with that said we should take some pride in having done a better job than most, not to say anyone else.

You claim that you show the facts - then go on. Make a comparative analysis between the data of Sweden and the US when it comes to homosexuality. So far you have only made an ill advised claim of USA being

more open, friendly, and moral than most everybody else

.

When I countered it saying it is probably better here - you went on some huge rant - bashing Sweden without showing equal data for the states.

Beginning your last post with saying you have little doubt Sweden in general is more tolerant? So what exactly are you fighting at here, Don Quijote?

[PanzerJaeger]

1. This debate did not start with ME saying Sweden is great - it started with you saying:

Actually, it started with post #395.