Is this forum...

[Strike For The South]

I try to welcome everyone with open arms, unless I think they are a troll or a sock

That narrows it down to 5 guys

I'm only half joking

[Motep]

I try to welcome everyone with open arms, unless I think they are a troll or a sock

That narrows it down to 5 guys

I'm only half joking

I wish that that half was not there...

*sigh

[Togakure]

What's a sock?

[Strike For The South]

An account made on an internet message board, by a person who already has an account, for the purpose of posting more-or-less anonymously.

UD

[Togakure]

An account made on an internet message board, by a person who already has an account, for the purpose of posting more-or-less anonymously.

UD

Ah yes, my net-ki-jutsu lapsed there; should have immediately gone UD. Thx.

[Andres]

...really for me or for you guys?

Now of course I do not mean exclusively me vs. everybody else, but rather as a more general term to cover people who don't feel, or who are just aren't members of the Exclusive Gentleman's Club known as TotalWar.Org. For you see, I have never, outside of the Gameroom and EB Tavern (And even then that particular institution was defined by its rejection of what I'm about to discuss) really felt "part" of the .Org. What do I mean by part of the .Org you ask? It's simple; the Exclusive Gentleman's Club that defines itself by its rejection of people who are not already in it.

Surely that is too harsh I hear you say. Surely we are a friendly and welcoming bunch to newbies. Well, yes, as individuals. I personally do not have issues with most, if not all people in the .Org. I'm sure that IRL you're a bunch of nice guys. But the .Org is not. The .Org, outside of the Gameroom (When I refer to the .Org in the rest of this essay, it will be excluding the gameroom, as the gameroom is essentially a forum unto itself and which I love to bits), is fundamentally conservative in its outlook towards newcomers and people who challenge the rules and customs which serve to drive newcomers away, and even just people who disagree with the current direction of the .Org (I.e. a sad lonely death) and want to change it.

I wasn't aware there was an Exclusive Gentleman's Club here at the .Org.

Anyway, why is it so important to "be accepted", "fit in" etc etc. Just be yourself man. I never once asked myself the question what I needed to do to fit in.

I think you worry too much about such things. Maybe it's just me, but I don't really care about what others think of me. Like me or don't like me. If it's the latter, it's your problem, not mine.

For example: ACIN posted a thread that was a joke, and essentially a pretty cutting satire of the prevalence of obnoxious girl threads that have spread like a fungus throughout the .Org recently. What was the reaction? Laughter? A compliment for ACIN on his ability to take the Frontroom for a ride (Save me and SFTS)? No, it was an awkward silence that suggested that the readers were confused and made unhappy either by the not-that-complex humour and/or the criticism of the .Org itself for permitting so many threads of that type, followed by a lock for no discernible reason (seeing as it didn't seem anyone else was going to post there anyway).

So, he started a thread and didn't get the expected amount of replies. Big deal. It happened to me too, you know. Opening a thread and not getting many replies. What's the problem exactly? Start another one and see how it goes.

Another example: I spent an hour writing a 1,000 word essay in the Watchtower commenting on the specific problems that the .Org faced, and anticitpating such a problem, I summarised each two hundred word block into five word phrases in case people saw the text and were daunted by it. The response? One member who had not been here for some time and was horrified by the sickness within the .Org engaged in a discussion, and one completely wrong comment from a muppet that in itself generated more comment and controversy than my essay did. This is turn reflects a wider trend that I have often felt my posts in the backroom to be ignored (Save by a few, notably Furunculus, Beskar and fragony and probably IA and PVC), for whatever reason I genuinely do not know. Of course, the essay in the watchtower mentioned was ignored, to be replaced by a discussion about avatars. As if that would magically solve everything.

Everybody has that feeling sometimes

I have had that feeling too. I guess it's either because my post was rubbish or because it was so intelligent and well written that nobody dared to challenge it. 99 % of the times it happens, it's probably the latter

And you know what, I am convinced that the reason that the .Org is in decline is because those who are most committed and should be doing the most to save it have absolutely no interest in rescuing it.

I don't believe that waking up one day, looking in the mirror and saying "and now I'm going to save the .Org" is the right mentality to "save" the .Org. It has to come naturally, sponteanously. I've had several pm conversations with concerned members lately and I always give the same advice: "don't worry too much, post and enjoy the place as long as it lasts. Who knows, by doing just that, you might exactly be doing what the .Org needs to get back on its' feet" aka negativity leads to nowhere or, worse, to a self fullfilling prophecy.

The .Org has changed from a forum about TW games, to a forum where a bunch of 20-something+ guys who sorta-know each other hang out and chat. It's like an Exclusive Gentleman's Drinking Club, only without the influence/power and without the booze, meaning it defines itself through its little in-jokes (GAH, Camels, everything after M:TW is utter crap etc.) and through its rejection of any means to change the situation.

Djeez, all this "the .Org doesn't change" is getting a bit annoying.

We are using new software, we have a new frontpage, we have new skins, we have social groups and visitor messages, new members have no longer restrictions, there are blogs, etc etc.

(what follows is not aimed at you alone, Subo, it's more as an "in general")

There have been a lot of changes lately, but apparently some people here refuse to see it.

All this whining about the .Org going down and the mods and the admins somehow having the task to save it and yadda yadda yadda. Djeez. You have an account. You can post, open new threads. If you have something that needs to be on the frontpage, you just have to pm staff. You can blog. You have everything you need at your disposal so quit looking at others to bring you what you desire on a silver plate.

About cliques and such, the EB Tavern crew was exactly that. I'm glad some of you took the time and effort to take a look at the rest of the forum and I truly appreciate your contributions.

I mean, look at how much controversy there has been over avatars, sigs MORE than 400 px in length and the constant discussion tha goes nowhere about Senior/Junior members!That isn't something which would be as drawn out or as opposed on any normal forum - the admin would just say "Right, here's what you're getting BANG". How can any meaningful change be attempted or even wanted by those same people?

That's a fair enough point. It does take a while to get things changed around here. But as said before, things did/do change. If you want change, then persistence is key. That's not too different from RL, though, so why should that come as a surprise? Most humans don't like change and it gets worse the older you get. Things not changing or changing difficultly, that's human nature.

In short, it is pretty obvious that Org is doomed, those who could do the most to change that don't care and it feels a lot of the time like I (As well as others, though I cannot speak for them) are merely tolerated as opposed to welcomed.

The .Org will be doomed if everyone will keep saying just that.

And please, you're not "merely tolerated". Have some more self-confidence for 's sake.

Oh, and I deliberately posted this in the Frontroom, as putting in the Watchtower would mean it would get overrun by banal and pointless discussion about avatars or something daft all over again, and because it is much easier for all of you to ignore if it is in the Watchtower.

Quit playing the victim already. Be a man and show some more self-confidence

[Hosakawa Tito]

Reminds me of highschool.

[Husar]

Surely that is too harsh I hear you say. Surely we are a friendly and welcoming bunch to newbies. Well, yes, as individuals. I personally do not have issues with most, if not all people in the .Org. I'm sure that IRL you're a bunch of nice guys. But the .Org is not. The .Org, outside of the Gameroom (When I refer to the .Org in the rest of this essay, it will be excluding the gameroom, as the gameroom is essentially a forum unto itself and which I love to bits), is fundamentally conservative in its outlook towards newcomers and people who challenge the rules and customs which serve to drive newcomers away, and even just people who disagree with the current direction of the .Org (I.e. a sad lonely death) and want to change it.

Well, I guess that makes me a newbie. Either that or my natural tendency not to join groups really works here.
I've been here since 2003, noone has mentioned me in the "who are you anyway?" thread in the Backroom, I'm obviously not part of the cool Backroom guys exclusive club but that's okay, I don't want to be, I hate them all anyway, that's what the Backroom is for, my personal playground to spread hate and annoy other people by posting things they have to ignore. I guess.

And besides, the Gameroom is the same, I may get welcomed in a thread but I never became a part of any in-group and unless I contact someone and run after them afterwards I am never included in anything and hardly PMed about a game. When I did well in a game it was hardly noticed and everybody was congratulated except me, I left the Gameroom for that and decided it's not worth getting worked up over and concentrate more on spreading hatred in the Backroom. I'm fine with that.

For example: ACIN posted a thread that was a joke, and essentially a pretty cutting satire of the prevalence of obnoxious girl threads that have spread like a fungus throughout the .Org recently. What was the reaction? Laughter? A compliment for ACIN on his ability to take the Frontroom for a ride (Save me and SFTS)? No, it was an awkward silence that suggested that the readers were confused and made unhappy either by the not-that-complex humour and/or the criticism of the .Org itself for permitting so many threads of that type, followed by a lock for no discernible reason (seeing as it didn't seem anyone else was going to post there anyway).

I didn't read that thread because I was a bit tired of all the girl threads I guess.
I'm not a big Frontroom guy, I'm not cool enough, got nothing to say, just boring.

Another example: I spent an hour writing a 1,000 word essay in the Watchtower commenting on the specific problems that the .Org faced, and anticitpating such a problem, I summarised each two hundred word block into five word phrases in case people saw the text and were daunted by it. The response? One member who had not been here for some time and was horrified by the sickness within the .Org engaged in a discussion, and one completely wrong comment from a muppet that in itself generated more comment and controversy than my essay did. This is turn reflects a wider trend that I have often felt my posts in the backroom to be ignored (Save by a few, notably Furunculus, Beskar and fragony and probably IA and PVC), for whatever reason I genuinely do not know. Of course, the essay in the watchtower mentioned was ignored, to be replaced by a discussion about avatars. As if that would magically solve everything.

Pff.
See above, I've been posting in the Backroom since 2003 and have felt ignored most of the time. I had to pretend to be a Nazi to enter a long discussion, only extreme viewpoints get a reaction there.
I did however positively notice a lot of your recent posts there and I can see how the lack of response makes one feel ignored, but maybe it's really just that people agree with you, I won't debate you when I agree with your view and I never think of just posting "seconded".
I suppose after doing that a few times the mods would complain that I'm spamming short posts without contributing to the discussion, or maybe I'm just lazy.

And you know what, I am convinced that the reason that the .Org is in decline is because those who are most committed and should be doing the most to save it have absolutely no interest in rescuing it. The .Org has changed from a forum about TW games, to a forum where a bunch of 20-something+ guys who sorta-know each other hang out and chat. It's like an Exclusive Gentleman's Drinking Club, only without the influence/power and without the booze, meaning it defines itself through its little in-jokes (GAH, Camels, everything after M:TW is utter crap etc.) and through its rejection of any means to change the situation.

Only partly true, GAH is part of the culture here and was a lot more widespread by the time I joined here, it hasn't stopped anyone from signing up back then. the whole thing about TW games being bad is a peculiar issue, because they are.
They're not that bad but they don't get me or many other people here excited anymore as they used to, having the same discussions about AI etc. before every release is just tiring, it's not exclusively our fault, we're not making the games.

I mean, look at how much controversy there has been over avatars, sigs MORE than 400 px in length and the constant discussion tha goes nowhere about Senior/Junior members! That isn't something which would be as drawn out or as opposed on any normal forum - the admin would just say "Right, here's what you're getting BANG". How can any meaningful change be attempted or even wanted by those same people?

That's actually a good point, not to criticise Tosa who just wants to please us by giving us options, but maybe he shouldn't.

In short, it is pretty obvious that Org is doomed, those who could do the most to change that don't care and it feels a lot of the time like I (As well as others, though I cannot speak for them) are merely tolerated as opposed to welcomed.

Oh, and I deliberately posted this in the Frontroom, as putting in the Watchtower would mean it would get overrun by banal and pointless discussion about avatars or something daft all over again, and because it is much easier for all of you to ignore if it is in the Watchtower.

I think it shows that, despite all your "I'm not part of this community"-rhetoric, you actually care. And your opinion should be respected, as long as you don't want your EB tavern back that is.

Djeez, all this "the .Org doesn't change" is getting a bit annoying.

We are using new software, we have a new frontpage, we have new skins, we have social groups and visitor messages, new members have no longer restrictions, there are blogs, etc etc.

There's also a chat, there has been for 5 or 6 years in fact, because only a few people ever ventured there it has created it's own little group of elitists, myself included for once. Everybody is welcome to join though, you may feel rejected at first but so far everybody who had a bit of "staying power" and didn't just leave after a few minutes has been welcomed and accepted.

The .Org will be doomed if everyone will keep saying just that.

Something I'd take very seriously!
What would you do coming to a forum where everybody talks about how it is dying?
That's right, go away and look for another one....

And please, you're not "merely tolerated". Have some more self-confidence for 's sake.

Easier said than done, my friend.

[Veho Nex]

I try to welcome everyone with open arms, unless I think they are a troll or a sock

That narrows it down to 5 guys

I'm only half joking

Quick! which one am I? Can I be my own category? Like, Socking Troll, orrrr, That Trolling Sock, How about "Foot Warmer who just happens to live under a bridge".