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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is OK to harrass mormons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Not sure what you mean by your counter question? Do you agree that no-one was baptized in water after the new covenant and church was established?
    Paul was not baptized? He did not preach baptism? Peter? That some disciples in Ephesus was not re-baptized after having been baptized by John?
    It seems there are more evidence for than against baptism being practiced in the established early church.
    No, my point was that there is Biblical evidence of early Christians observing Jewish traditions, the important point is who is doing it. In every case, it is Jews. Note how the only figures Paul says he baptised were a synagogue ruler and his companion, while the rest of the baptisms are carried out by Peter, as Apostle to the Jews.

    And did Paul preach baptism? Well, as he said himself, "Christ sent me not to baptise, but to preach the Gospel". The early apostles baptised for the same reason they observed other Jewish traditions... so that they might be Jews to the Jews, and Gentiles to the Gentiles. As I said, Paul had Timothy circumcised for that reason, so do you believe all Christians should be circumcised?

    I mean, you can get baptised if you really want to make a point with the symbolism, but there is not need to go around baptising everbody as if it were essential to salvation or somehow virtuous in itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    It only takes to look into history of the branching and re branching of Christian denominations, from the original church through Catholicism and Greek orthodox to reformation and protestantism and further re branching to about 35 000 different denominations. Look to their origins and what caused them to be. What do they build their identity on?
    Well Catholics/Orthodox identify by a mix of their scripture/their traditions, Protestants identify by returning to the purity of the early church.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    I gotta give that to the LDS. They have the best origin claim story, ever. In the gameroom we give awards for such ingenuity.
    IMO the British Israelite version is much better, you even get to mix lots of racial stuff in with it like saying ancient inhabitants of Ulster were Cruithin (Picts, and hence Germanic), whereas the Gaelic Irish were supposedly descended from black people (I'm not joking, that's the story, probably because the movement is quite tied in with the far-right).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    I don't follow...
    The law is not something arbitrary stuck down in a book. It is far more than words, Paul speaks of "the work of the law written in their hearts" (Rom 2:15), and so we "do by nature the things contained in the law" (Rom 2:14).

    Even the existence of God is self-evident and something all people know by nature, although they rebel against it. See the appropriate bit from Romans 1:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

    25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


    As a side note, in the next bit, our ordained gender roles!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

    30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

    31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

    32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    Last edited by Rhyfelwyr; 02-15-2011 at 21:08.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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