Gender Roles: Even More Spin-Off

[LeftEyeNine]

Gay parenting thread, for me, has been a mine of question marks; now after some certain statements in the article presented by PJ was extracted as a matter of dispute by Rhyfelwyr and Sasaki Kojiro respectively.

Do gender roles mean anything to you ? Should they ? If they are fading for the better of humanitarian actions (not humanity as it would involve procreation, hence being rendered impossible to debate), let it be ?

Is there anything wrong with retreated, less aggressive and sexually contained/avoiding boys, for example ? Are gender roles the next antiques to dump ?

[PanzerJaeger]

I think that gender roles are repressive when they are enforced and not allowed to emerge naturally. Not every boy is hyper aggressive and not every girl aspires to be in pageants. Forcing children to adopt these roles can and does cause later psychological issues.

Girls, especially, are at a great disadvantage if they are socially conditioned to aspire only to find and serve a husband. The article mentioned that those that were raised in lesbian households with little emphasis placed on gender roles were more likely to aspire to higher professions and achieve greater things in their lives.

That's not to say that parents shouldn't encourage certain activities, but a child should be allowed to develop his or her own personality and interests free of familial and social pressures.

[HoreTore]

I believe I am perfectly capable of defining my own role in society without the "help" of society.

The notion that someone should behave like X because they were born as X is an outdated concept of the nobility, something that should've been gone with Louis XVI's head in the revolution.

I am born a free man, and how I live my life is for me to choose.

[rory_20_uk]

I think that roles are unhelpful. What is required is a more general understanding that males and females as a cohort tend to like doing different things, have different goals and prefer different careers. It does not mean there are not exceptionally good house fathers, or female physics scientists - but as a broad brush there is a higher percentage of women in primary school teaching than in surgery. It does not mean it's "bad" that women like different things to men, but to accept it - and ensure that this is due to choice and not due to artificial boundaries.

[HoreTore]

Your comment on women in primary schools really stings, man....

[Louis VI the Fat]

Your comment on women in primary schools really stings, man....

Just doing his bit to keep you girls in your place.

[Fisherking]

Your comment on women in primary schools really stings, man....

Well perhaps if we examine motives?

Women tend to be a bit more nurturing than men.

Or perhaps you are interested in socializing the children in a way more to your liking. Are you after hears and minds?

[Rhyfelwyr]

I am born a free man, and how I live my life is for me to choose.

The thing is you weren't born a free man, you were born a child that was very much influenced by his surroudings. And they had a big impact on who you are today. Same for me, same for everyone.

99% of boys and girls grow up to fulfil pretty stereotypical gender roles. As PJ's article showed, this isn't the case with children being raised by homosexuals.

These gender roles form much of the basis of society. Without understanding them, these children are going to have a hard time adapting.

I feel really sorry for the boy that turns out the way they described them in PJ's article, it's not fair to them to let them get like that.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The thing is you weren't born a free man, you were born a child that was very much influenced by his surroudings. And they had a big impact on who you are today. Same for me, same for everyone.

99% of boys and girls grow up to fulfil pretty stereotypical gender roles.

Yes, like the boys and girls in MRD's afghanistan thread. Is that what you want?

These gender roles form much of the basis of society. Without understanding them, these children are going to have a hard time adapting.

If they formed the basis of the society, society would have been collapsing for 100 years! Society is perfectly capable of handling change. Pink was once a mainly masculine color and blue was once a mainly feminine color. Now we've swapped it. You're ignoring the large arbitrary aspect, not to mention the negative side.

I feel really sorry for the boy that turns out the way they described them in PJ's article, it's not fair to them to let them get like that.

Are you sorry for yourself then? Try judging yourself by the masculine roles of ages past...

Also, you have to understand that when they talk about aggression in psychology they are referring to physical violence. aka, boys raised to be less aggressive are less likely to beat their wives. They aren't talking about assertiveness, or aggressiveness in the way we often use the word, I think the psychology use of the word is kind of dumb but it is what it is.

[Strike For The South]

I like kittens

Does this make me not a traditonal man?

A lifiting partner likes to suck dicks but he would probably beat the hell out of you

Who is the traditonal man?

These "traditonal roles" have been vicously challenged time and time again throught human history

Ho bloody hum

[PanzerJaeger]

These gender roles form much of the basis of society. Without understanding them, these children are going to have a hard time adapting.

I think you are misinterpreting the study.

It did not say that the children did not understand gender roles, only that they were less likely to adhere to them in certain ways. It then went on to conclude that the children were as well adjusted as their peers with straight parents. The researchers saw this as a good thing - that the children adopted the roles that naturally came to them instead of conforming to roles that were expected of them.

One does not have to adhere to specific gender roles to understand them and how to function in a society where they exist.

[Rhyfelwyr]

It did not say that the children did not understand gender roles, only that they were less likely to adhere to them in certain ways. It then went on to conclude that the children were as well adjusted as their peers with straight parents. The researchers saw this as a good thing - that the children adopted the roles that naturally came to them instead of conforming to roles that were expected of them.

First off, what they consider to be "well adjusted" is subjective, and shows I'm not the only one with preconceived notions of how children should develop. What exactly do they mean by well adjusted anyway?

Also, you seem to imply that heterosexual parents influence their children to become a certain way, whereas homosexual ones would somehow not exert an influence, but rather let the children develop "naturally" (funny how it's not me that actually uses that word).

Is there a reason why you think this would be the case?

[Beskar]

That's not to say that parents shouldn't encourage certain activities, but a child should be allowed to develop his or her own personality and interests free of familial and social pressures.

Agreed. Gender roles are social constructs enforced by society. The parents buy their daughter the Kitchen set and then buy their Son the action man and the kids are at that age where the only reason they do these is because their parents and what they are forced into by society.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Agreed. Gender roles are social constructs enforced by society. The parents buy their daughter the Kitchen set and then buy their Son the action man and the kids are at that age where the only reason they do these is because their parents and what they are forced into by society.

I feel like I've been blasted into the 60's with this sociocultural analysis.

[HoreTore]

I feel like I've been blasted into the 60's with this sociocultural analysis.

.....and yet you yourself adhere to a functionalistic explanation, which was a thing of the 60's as well. 1860's, that is...

[Beskar]

I feel like I've been blasted into the 60's with this sociocultural analysis.

I do possess a Masters in Social Psychology which I only went into because I have a very social view of Identity, mainly because my studies in general Psychology (BSc) generally pointed me in that direction. There is a lot of neurological evidence supporting this line of thought as well, such as promising research in Mirror Neuron's. But that is enough of this digression.

[The Stranger]

I think that gender roles are repressive when they are enforced and not allowed to emerge naturally. Not every boy is hyper aggressive and not every girl aspires to be in pageants. Forcing children to adopt these roles can and does cause later psychological issues.

Girls, especially, are at a great disadvantage if they are socially conditioned to aspire only to find and serve a husband. The article mentioned that those that were raised in lesbian households with little emphasis placed on gender roles were more likely to aspire to higher professions and achieve greater things in their lives.

That's not to say that parents shouldn't encourage certain activities, but a child should be allowed to develop his or her own personality and interests free of familial and social pressures.

everything apparantly causes psychological issues...

[Fragony]

@PJ Fifties called they want their housewives back. Modern women want a career and modern men like modern women, long past that nobody is forcing anyone

calls for a classic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

[The Stranger]

most men like any women they can put their thing in.

:O oh my now i am generalising, stereotyping and all kings of thingings. im so badd!!

[HoreTore]

most menhorny virgin teenage boys like any women they can put their thing in.

:O oh my now i am generalising, stereotyping and all kings of thingings. im so badd!!

Fixed.