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Thread: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    WalMart is a national chain of huge discount stores. Their angle is selling stuff for cheap, and selling cheap stuff for really cheap.

    Now, it's common sense cheaper goods allows poorer people to buy more things, increasing their quality of life. WalMart also provides jobs to lots of people.

    And yet there's a lot of opposition to WalMart among some urban liberals and democrats.

    Will Mayor Tom Menino save Boston’s poorest families from the scourge of  . . . everyday low prices?

    Yes, the wolves of Wal-Mart are again at the city’s door. They want to spend millions building a store, hiring construction workers and creating hundreds of permanent jobs. No wonder the mayor hates them.

    Is “hate” too strong a word? In 2005, Menino told a cheering Labor Day breakfast crowd “Wal-Mart shouldn’t be in downtown Boston!” A year later, after shooting down a Wal-Mart proposal, he claimed there was no place for them here.

    “Wal-Mart does not suit the clientele we have in the city of Boston,” Menino said. “I don’t need employers like that in our city.”
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020906783.html
    When politicians, agency officials and other establishment types discuss the pros and cons of Wal-Mart opening stores in poor, retail-starved neighborhoods in the District, they often talk about pretty high-minded stuff. Fair pay. Job training. Environmental safeguards.

    By contrast, in the scruffy blocks around the corner of New York Avenue and Bladensburg Road in Northeast Washington, where the first of four Wal-Marts planned for the District would probably be built, the residents have more immediate, street-level concerns.

    First, would a new Wal-Mart there really stock the same quality of food and products as its stores do in better-off, suburban communities?

    "I'll believe it when I see it," Mya Harris, 24, said skeptically. "Sure, you can put the store here, but what are they going to put inside it?"

    Second, and I was amazed when this anxiety was aired in fully half the interviews, residents worry that the store would suffer severely or even fail because of petty theft.

    "There'll probably be a lot of shoplifting going on. They'll need a lot of security," Terriea Sutton, 35, said.

    Brenda Speaks, a Ward 4 ANC commissioner, actually urged blocking construction of the planned store in her ward at Georgia and Missouri avenues NW partly because of that risk. Addressing a small, anti-Wal-Mart rally at City Hall on Monday, Speaks said young people would get criminal records when they couldn't resist the temptation to steal.
    All the opposition seems to stems from ignorance, or just a general dislike of large companies, since WalMart does a lot to help the poor by its very existence.
    The study below is from 2005, but from progressive Jason Furman, now one of Obama's top economic advisors.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    There is little dispute that Wal-Mart’s price reductions have benefited the 120 million American workers employed outside of the retail sector. Plausible estimates of the magnitude of the savings from Wal-Mart are enormous – a total of $263 billion in 2004, or $2,329 per household.

    Even if you grant that Wal-Mart hurts workers in the retail sector – and the evidence for this is far from clear – the magnitude of any potential harm is small in comparison. One study, for example, found that the “Wal-Mart effect” lowered retail wages by $4.7 billion in 2000.

    But Wal-Mart, like other retailers and employers of less-skilled workers, does not pay enough for a family to live the dignified life Americans have come to expect and demand.
    ...

    Some of the largest price differentials are for groceries, with Wal-Mart’s prices substantially below the prices at unionized chains like Kroger and Safeway.

    The most careful economic estimate of the benefits of lower prices and the increased variety of retail establishments is in a paper by MIT economist Jerry Hausman and Ephraim Leibtag (neither researcher received support from Wal-Mart).

    They estimated that the direct benefit of lower prices at superstores, mass merchandisers and club stores (including but not limited to Wal-Mart) made consumers better off by the equivalent of 20.2 percent of food spending.

    In addition, the indirect benefit of lower prices at competing supermarkets was worth another 4.8 percent of income. In total, the existence of big box stores makes consumers better off by the equivalent of 25 percent of annual food spending. That is the equivalent of an additional $782 per household in 2003.

    Because moderate-income families spend a higher percentage of their incomes on food than upper-income families, these benefits are distributed very progressively. As shown in Table 1, the benefits from big box grocery stores are equivalent to a 6.5 percent increase in income for the bottom quintile (average income of $8,201) and a 0.9 percent increase in income for the top quintile (average income $127,146).
    ...

    In the spring of 2004, a new Wal-Mart opened up in Glendale, Arizona. The store received 8,000 applications for 525 jobs with wages starting as low as $6.75 per hour.

    A Harvard applicant has a higher chance of being accepted than a person applying for a job at that Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart experiences similarly high application ratios at other jobs. These anecdotes strongly suggest that jobs at Wal-Mart are better than the opportunities these workers would have in the absence of Wal-Mart, either other jobs or unemployment.
    ...

    Implicit in much of the criticism of Wal-Mart is the belief that the company has enormous resources and could easily pay higher wages or more benefits without making a major sacrifice. After all, Wal-Mart’s mind-boggling $10 billion in profits last year make it appear as if the company could wave a wand and do anything it wants. But Wal-Mart also has a staggering 1.3 million American employees, multiplying the costs of even a modest change in compensation.
    ...

    If Microsoft paid each of its employees an additional $5,000 or expanded its health benefits, its profits would be largely unchanged. If Wal-Mart took the same step – and did not pass the cost on to consumers – it would be virtually wiped out.

    In the last fiscal year, Wal-Mart had revenues of $288 billion and costs (including taxes and other charges) of $277 billion – a razor-thin profit margin of 3.7 percent of revenues. Even a very small increase in its costs, without a corresponding increase in revenues, would wipe Wal-Mart’s profits out entirely.


    CR
    Last edited by Crazed Rabbit; 02-13-2011 at 19:37.
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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Walmart could easily help the poor, all it would take is to change its wage status from "slave" to "decent". When people cannot feed their family despite working 100%, something is seriously diseased.

    I do love, however, how CR suggest that the way to cure poverty is to drag people down and make everyone as poor as the next, instead of raising the poor to the level of the working class.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    I don't understand it. Maybe people prefer shopping at their local family owned grocery, but you have to think of all the people in your area having a tough time financially (this is the other criticism of walmart I think).

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    @Horetore Perhaps next time you could read further than 'WalMart' before replying.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    @Horetore Perhaps next time you could read further than 'WalMart' before replying.

    CR
    Thanks for saving me the effort

    I wonder what's the going hourly rate for slave labor anyway. What did they make back on the plantations?

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    @Horetore Perhaps next time you could read further than 'WalMart' before replying.

    CR
    Is this an attempt to starte a flame war or something?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    But Wal-Mart, like other retailers and employers of less-skilled workers, does not pay enough for a family to live the dignified life Americans have come to expect and demand.
    This, I think, is the major reason for Wal-Mart hate.

    Wal-Mart pays people what they are actually worth, not what they think they are worth. The company is on the cutting edge of a new trend in the American workforce that many people, especially union workers, will have a hard time accepting. The post-war American economy that yielded such aberrations as factory workers earning 3 figures simply is not a reality in the new globalized economy.

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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post

    Now, it's common sense cheaper goods allows poorer people to buy more things, increasing their quality of life.
    not true most cheap foodstuff have lots of additives like salt, sugar etc in order to increase profitability while decreasing costs of production.

    it has not been proven anywhere such practices help poor people, and indeed there health statistics would say it is actually bad for them to shop at Wall Mart.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Wiki says 10.78 an hour on average for full time workers, and 2,500 a year in savings for poor families on food due to low prices.

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    The statement a social democrat makes when it comes to wages is very simple:

    When you work full time, you should earn enough money to support a family.

    Wal-Mart currently does not do this, which is why social democrats abhor their slave wages.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    not true most cheap foodstuff have lots of additives like salt, sugar etc in order to increase profitability while decreasing costs of production.

    it has not been proven anywhere such practices help poor people, and indeed there health statistics would say it is actually bad for them to shop at Wall Mart.
    People aren't obese because of eating food with additives.

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    The statement a social democrat makes when it comes to wages is very simple:

    When you work full time, you should earn enough money to support a family.

    Wal-Mart currently does not do this, which is why social democrats abhor their slave wages.
    What if your work is not worth the money it takes to support a family?

    Is stocking shelves worth $40,000 a year?
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 02-13-2011 at 20:05.

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    The statement a social democrat makes when it comes to wages is very simple:

    When you work full time, you should earn enough money to support a family.

    Wal-Mart currently does not do this, which is why social democrats abhor their slave wages.
    I worked once for a union political organization, they paid less an hour than walmart (10.31).

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    not true most cheap foodstuff have lots of additives like salt, sugar etc in order to increase profitability while decreasing costs of production.

    it has not been proven anywhere such practices help poor people, and indeed there health statistics would say it is actually bad for them to shop at Wall Mart.
    Extremely true.

    Why does one pack of spaghetti cost one dollarm while anothere pack costs 10? Because the latter is filled with stuff that has nutritional value, while the former is filled with stuff like palm oil, which is horribly unhealthy, or sicilone dioxside, which is sand. You know, the stuff you find on beaches. I'm sure it has lots of nutrition in it though, I'm sure its not put in there to scam people....errrrrr......

    Poor people are obese. Poor people buy cheap food. Cheap food is filled to the brink with palm oil. "Obesity in a can" is another name for palm oil.

    And people still attack poor people for everything that's wrong in the world. That bum on 5th avenue? Obviously the source of the credit crunch.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    People aren't obese because of eating food with additives.
    Yes they are, at least if they are shopping in Wall Mart regularly.

    Sure exercise is good for you, but if your eating poor quality ingredients then your chances of exercising enough to burn off the sugar/salt even in supposed low fat healthy foods is practically nil.
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 02-13-2011 at 20:12.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    What if your work is not worth the money it takes to support a family?

    Is stocking shelves worth $40,000 a year?
    Can a store function without its shelves being restocked?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    I'm honestly not sure how to respond to this. WalMart knowingly employs illegal aliens, ships jobs off to China, and forces other businesses out of work due to the massive coroporate welfare that WalMart recieves. They're everything that conservatives hate and yet you're here defending them?

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    I'm more libertarian than conservative.

    I'm not defending hiring illegals.

    "Shipping jobs off to China" is protectionist bunk.

    What exactly do you mean by "massive corporate welfare"?

    As for the whole 'WalMart makes you unhealthy' - that's not just wrong, the opposite is true:

    WalMart makes you healthier:

    In the popular imagination, a big-box store such as Wal-Mart is more often seen as part of the problem than part of the solution: We associate Wal-Mart with large women in stretch pants, fat kids sucking down tubs of soda, and morbidly obese men inching down the snack-food aisle in motorized shopping carts. The store makes candy, chips, and soda ridiculously cheap—so wouldn’t Wal-Mart contribute to the obesity problem?
    That’s what economists Art Carden of Rhodes College and Charles Courtemanche of the University of North Carolina at Greensboro suspected. So they conducted a study to find out. Carden and Courtemanche have done a number of studies on Wal-Mart. Carden insists they get no funding from the company, directly or indirectly. Rather, he says, the two free-market economists have been intrigued by the Wal-Mart debate and wanted to test some of the more common criticisms of the store. Generally, they’ve found that the worst fears about Wal-Mart are unfounded, and that the stores have a mostly positive impact on their communities.
    But they thought this one might be different. “We expected the study to show an increase in obesity in communities with a Wal-Mart,” Carden says. “We know that Wal-Mart lowers the cost of food, but we figured it’s not always the best food for you.”
    To their surprise, they found the opposite—there was a small but statistically significant reduction in obesity rates in communities with a Wal-Mart, perhaps because the store also sells fresh produce of good quality at a good price.
    The statement a social democrat makes when it comes to wages is very simple:

    When you work full time, you should earn enough money to support a family.

    Wal-Mart currently does not do this, which is why social democrats abhor their slave wages.
    That's stupid. First off - WalMart pays equal to the industry average.

    More importantly, not every job should support a family. Not every job provides the value to others (in terms of goods produced or services rendered) that is equal to the goods and services necessary to support a family.

    Arbitrarily imposing some extreme minimum wage would greatly disrupt the economy and make everything more expensive as well, decreasing the real minimum wage.

    Plus there are a lot of people who want jobs at WalMart at the wages they have now.

    Can a store function without its shelves being restocked?
    I'll bet there's lots of people willing to do that work for less than $40k a year.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    I don't know enough to really contribute a thought out opinion on this subject, but I would like to kindly ask CR, not to cherry pick the paragraphs he chooses from the articles he provides as evidence.

    Here is the continuation of what CR has quoted in the post right above me

    To their surprise, they found the opposite—there was a small but statistically significant reduction in obesity rates in communities with a Wal-Mart, perhaps because the store also sells fresh produce of good quality at a good price.
    Broadening the study to big-box stores in general, the effect was even more pronounced. “People actually bought more produce, more fruits and vegetables,” Carden says. “Instead of just eating more, they ate a higher-quality diet—a lower-fat diet than the rest of the population.”
    Wal-Mart didn’t escape the study completely unscathed. Carden and Courtemanche found an increase in alcohol purchases in communities with Wal-Mart Superstores, and increases in smoking in communities with a Sam’s Club. They also found that the presence of a Wal-Mart in the community correlates with less exercise. But the overall “Wal-Mart effect” on health was positive.

    With so many positive and negative factors playing into a Wal-Mart opening up I really don't see how they can conclusively say, "oh yeah, overall it is still healthier for the community.", I'm skeptical as hell over this study now.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Bah. It was a direct response to the unfounded allegations that WalMart food is bad for you and makes people fatter. They weren't talking about alcohol or smoking (which is a separate issue from nutrition and food quality).

    I don't see the reason for the skepticism. Even in the part you quoted, the article mentions the overall positive health effect.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Bah. It was a direct response to the unfounded allegations that WalMart food is bad for you and makes people fatter. They weren't talking about alcohol or smoking (which is a separate issue from nutrition and food quality).

    I don't see the reason for the skepticism. Even in the part you quoted, the article mentions the overall positive health effect.

    CR
    Perhaps it has been a while since I have taken economics but how "solid" is comparing alcohol rates, exercise rates, the nutrition of food and smoking rates and then coming up with a statement, "yeah they are healthier by our calculations."?

    What are the calculations that determine how much nutrition of food should increase to negate a high smoking rate among a population?
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    I prefer shopping elsewhere, not because I have anything in particular against Wal-Mart, I just dislike hoards of roaming Mullets, screaming kids (I get enough of that at home), and sub par service. I only partially agree with Horetore, mostly because I think places like Walmart actually cater to the lifestyle of the poor, but do relatively nothing to elevate them (or motivate them) to do more. Now you could say that, that isn't Walmart's responsibility, and that of course is also true, if you don't want to work for slave wages stop complaining, and get educated to work a job that pays in more than peanut shells, which arguably can be a difficult thing (but far from impossible) to do.

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    I'm more libertarian than conservative.
    If you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    I'm not defending hiring illegals.
    You are, however, defending an organization that does exactly that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    "Shipping jobs off to China" is protectionist bunk.
    ...every single time you post, I hope that you'll someday show some sign that your economics education wasn't a complete farce, and every single time, I'm bitterly disappointed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    What exactly do you mean by "massive corporate welfare"?
    That probably wasn't the right term, I'll admit. But WalMart gets massive tax breaks for new stores that local businesses don't, causing the latter to shut down and destroying the tax base of a region.

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by jabarto View Post
    You are, however, defending an organization that does did exactly that.
    Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT), the world's largest retailer, escaped criminal charges when it agreed to pay $11 million, a record fine in a civil immigration case, to end a federal probe into its use of illegal immigrants as janitors.

    Additionally, 12 businesses that provided contract janitor services to Wal-Mart will pay $4 million in fines and plead guilty to criminal immigration charges, officials said.

    The deal resolves a more than four-year-long Department of Justice (search) investigation into the employment practices of the company's former floor-cleaning contractors.

    "This case breaks new ground not only because this is a record dollar amount for a civil immigration settlement, but because this settlement requires Wal-Mart to create an internal program to ensure future compliance with immigration laws by Wal-Mart contractors and by Wal-Mart itself," said Michael J. Garcia, assistant secretary for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (search).

    "We plan to use this settlement as a model for future cases and efforts in worksite enforcement," he said.

    Wal-Mart received a target letter from a grand jury in Pennsylvania and was the subject of an October 2003 raid spanning 21 states and 60 stores. The raids led to the arrest of 245 allegedly illegal immigrants.

    Wal-Mart, which has 1.2 million domestic workers, had pledged its cooperation in the investigation.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...#ixzz1DtJhWysr
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    ...every single time you post, I hope that you'll someday show some sign that your economics education wasn't a complete farce, and every single time, I'm bitterly disappointed.
    What?

    That probably wasn't the right term, I'll admit. But WalMart gets massive tax breaks for new stores that local businesses don't, causing the latter to shut down and destroying the tax base of a region.
    That's a local government being incompetent problem...or else a lack of federal standards problem. I have no idea how that one will be solved but I don't see how it's a criticism of walmart specifically.

    I just don't get your whole approach to this thread, you brought up a bunch of criticisms that you feel your right wing opponents should agree with? But going after a caricature is kind of pointless...

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    I hate Wal-Mart but only because my family is in direct competition with them

    And we are winning

    I lol and lol hard at gorcerey stores who complain, Have a good buisness model and you will succeed

    And before any of whiny libreal whack jobs whine, just know we match Wally worlds prices, have better selections, keep our stores clean, and pay our employees better

    I guess thats why we were named gorcer of the year in 2010


    \Is stocking shelves worth $40,000 a year?
    I wish! I WOULD BE A THOUSANDARE
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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Wal-mart does what the coal mines used to do back in the early 20th century. Way back when it was legal to pay the coal miners in currency only accepted at the local general store, owned by the coal company. Basically the miners weren't making money, and since the prices were so high sooner or later the miners would be in debt.

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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    But afaik walmart pays in cash???? And has low prices rather than cripplingly high prices???? And doesn't give you lung cancer????

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Perhaps it has been a while since I have taken economics but how "solid" is comparing alcohol rates, exercise rates, the nutrition of food and smoking rates and then coming up with a statement, "yeah they are healthier by our calculations."?

    What are the calculations that determine how much nutrition of food should increase to negate a high smoking rate among a population?
    That's a fair question. I'm not sure how they defined overall health.

    But WalMart does provide more healthy food options.

    ...every single time you post, I hope that you'll someday show some sign that your economics education wasn't a complete farce, and every single time, I'm bitterly disappointed.
    What?
    Apparently when my statements about economics don't jibe with his leftist views, that means my minor in economics was "a complete farce".

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  29. #29
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    The only way wal-mart encourages the lifestyle of the poor is having a dirty ass store and engaging in pallet dropes

    That is just a sign of a lazy store

    My stores would never engage in such uncouth shenanigans

    SRSLY guys I live breathe and eat the grocery store

    I know all there is to know
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  30. #30
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: WalMart: Helping the Poor, Despised by (some) Urban Liberals

    WalMart helps the poor in the same way that the factories in 1820's Britain helped the poor. Working fourteen hours a day from the age of five is still preferable to starving to death, so in this direct sense a sweatshop helps the poor.

    WalMart and the Industrial Revolution are double faced beasts. They destroy existing social and economical patterns by making the people whose lives it ravages an offer they can't refuse.


    More in general, living wages for Americans are evaporating. The gentle middle class America of the 1950s is no longer. In its place, America has turned itself into some sort of Brazil. With an enormously unequal income distribution, little social mobility, gated communties, violence. It is not unthinkable that the middle class in America will go the way of that of Argentina, and simply evaporate.
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