Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia ton Barbaron

[jirisys]

now, asia without china is not asia! I demand Asia!
with Chinese

HINT : Look at Tanit's post in ol AtB thread

Culture slot full; AtB Malaysia, Tibet and North China = EB eastern europe, faction slot full, possible landmass crash ratio, Asia meant from Anatolia to India (the known world), they didn't know what china was, uninfluential on the west, religion slot full, China and the subswquent regions that would come with it asks too many units, unnecesary regions would be put in place, etc.

Really, I'd rather have a EB: Han and not the Han in EB: AtB. Their diversity and military cannot be compiled into a few units and a lot of regions.

I hope I did not offend anyone, we want to have the whole world in the map if we could.

~Jirisys (Sadly... The real world is non-compatible with the landmass ratio of RTW )

[gamegeek2]

Skullhead, it seems we have something in common, I have a proposal for this.....

[Hax]

they didn't know what china was, uninfluential on the west,

Uhuh. Yep, it's not like they invented paper or anything. Uninfluential on the west, and you want to lead this project? Good luck.

EDIT: I mean "didn't know what china was". Roman and Chinese ambassadors actually met in Parthia in 146 BC between 123 and 88 BC:

“The long reign of Mithadates II (123-87 B.C.) is significant [also] as in that during it Parthia first came into contact with both China and Rome.” - The Legacy of Persia, “Persia and the Ancient World” p.25

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[Lazy O]

So yea, Id like to hear how many culture slots the Indian Factions use :D :D :D :D :D

[jirisys]

Uhuh. Yep, it's not like they invented paper or anything. Uninfluential on the west, and you want to lead this project? Good luck.

Don't insult me. Yes, they were somewhat influential on the east... But how are you going to put it in an RTW mod and make that influence important at all? Besides some text description and everything, that's your case for Han China? Also, they didn't have a war with any western kingdom (except those who migrated there... i.e. the wusun?) and the records of westerners actually having known them is very late.

EDIT: I mean "didn't know what china was". Roman and Chinese ambassadors actually met in Parthia in 146 BC between 123 and 88 BC

And what's our start date sweetie? 247 BCE Right? Besides it's parthia only... Meaning at this point (almost in the end of the time period) we would have actually 2 factions that knew about china! Oh my jolly! Really, even if you eliminate those two points, I have many more to not include Han china in it.

I have a vague historical account for both east of sogdiane, the arabian peninsula and the axum and below. Also my country's educational system doesn't really care for those cultures at all, so there's my bias.

EDIT:

So yea, Id like to hear how many culture slots the Indian Factions use :D :D :D :D :D

One. Sadly the roman culture must be kept as they will be emergent.

Armenian and Atrapatene have their own culture as well, no more arabian stereotype sounding spies... That was awful.

~Jirisys ()

[Hax]

Meaning at this point (almost in the end of the time period) we would have actually 2 factions that knew about china! Oh my jolly!

You can't honestly be saying this, can ya? There was extensive contact between the Parthian and Chinese (Han China, make no mistake), including several trade agreements. In 101 BC the Han dynasty conquered Ferghana, in essence borderingthe Indo-Greek kingdom. The fact that even the Romans knew about China says something, don't you agree? I don't think that the presence of Chinese traders in Marakanda (Samarkand) would be a strange sight.

Don't insult me. Yes, they were somewhat influential on the east... But how are you going to put it in an RTW mod and make that influence important at all? Besides some text description and everything, that's your case for Han China?

Right, you know, I used to be the researcher on the Persianite factions for AtB, you do know that? I'm not interested in seeing Han China in any mod, but you're just not making sense here. There just isn't enough room, but don't go going on about how they had little influence/nobody knew them. Thank you.

[gamegeek2]

This is my map so far, I think it has 60-70 cities so far. Hax, what do you think?



We obviously need more cities in India, some more steppe cities, and maybe a couple more in China

[Finn MacCumhail]

I kinda person non grata in this thread, but want to share some ideas. Adding Han Empire would be wonderful. Satavahana might be replaced with strong scripted rebels for this sake.

Come on, it would be fun to bring China troops under Piramids and face there Roman Army.

Cultures Magnificent 7: Hellenistic, Arab, Nomad, Indian, Roman, China, Eastern. 7 slots would be enough if Armeni and Antropatena would share Eastern Culture as Parthia does. As a last resort, if you would despair need slot for some Ethiopian culture, you can merge Roman and Hellenistic, as AI Roman interface doesn't make much sence.

Also my country's educational system doesn't really care for those cultures at all, so there's my bias.

it is not a reason not to include faction.

possible map outline. Almost no Europe, no mainland Greece. That is why Roman invasion time shifted to later period. Asia till Pacific Ocean.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

EDIT

perhapse this map of Han Empire would help http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/d...maps/map01.pdf

[jirisys]

You can't honestly be saying this, can ya? There was extensive contact between the Parthian and Chinese (Han China, make no mistake), including several trade agreements. In 101 BC the Han dynasty conquered Ferghana, in essence borderingthe Indo-Greek kingdom. The fact that even the Romans knew about China says something, don't you agree? I don't think that the presence of Chinese traders in Marakanda (Samarkand) would be a strange sight.

I don't think the silly wording of the phrase convinced you of my facetiousness. In 101 BC, that's one year before the end of the mod. I'd rather have chine with gamegeek's idea, but still. There's still vast room to make some changes in the factions. Wouldn't you say. I'm not currently going to stick out into the same 20 factions you got there. Sunga was removed and replaced by pandya and Satavahana was made emergent. You know, there's still room for change.

Right, you know, I used to be the researcher on the Persianite factions for AtB, you do know that? I'm not interested in seeing Han China in any mod, but you're just not making sense here. There just isn't enough room, but don't go going on about how they had little influence/nobody knew them. Thank you.

Ok... They had a tad of influence and ALMOST nobody knew them

I kinda person non grata in this thread, but want to share some ideas. Adding Han Empire would be wonderful. Satavahana might be replaced with strong scripted rebels for this sake.

Come on, it would be fun to bring China troops under Piramids and face there Roman Army.

Cultures Magnificent 7: Hellenistic, Arab, Nomad, Indian, Roman, China, Eastern. 7 slots would be enough if Armeni and Antropatena would share Eastern Culture as Parthia does. As a last resort, if you would despair need slot for some Ethiopian culture, you can merge Roman and Hellenistic, as AI Roman interface doesn't make much sence.

Sense*. Why would we have an Ethiopian Culture? Those could be merged into a "semitic" culture (as most of them were of semitic origin... I guess? ) Romans as hellenistic culture; IIRC, wouldn't have their own barrack building for legions.
No, the point of the Armenian and Atrapatene culture would be to make them special and have a different feeling that they didn't have in EB. It's like making the latin-conquered gauls the same culture as the greek ones. If needed they would be merged.
Then what is Chersonesos and Pergamon's culture? They weren't so "Makedonians" as the Diadochoi, they were more of a classical greek-type culture.

it is not a reason not to include faction.

No, I addressed my lack of knowledge in the subject, not my wilingness to add a faction.

possible map outline. Almost no Europe, no mainland Greece. That is why Roman invasion time shifted to later period. Asia till Pacific Ocean.

You just expanded the current map further east. And you want to add Japan? That would make another culture fight...

I am not here to insult you, just try to clarify my point.

~Jirisys ()

[Hax]

You just expanded the current map further east. And you want to add Japan? That would make another culture fight...

Look again. It clearly ends at Korea.

They had a tad of influence and ALMOST nobody knew them

Did you even read? The Romans had personal contact. I wouldn't be surprised if basically all the factions in the game (save perhaps Nabataea, Saba and Aksum) knew of them.

[Finn MacCumhail]

Instead of “Ethiopian” you can include “Classical Greek culture”. Romans can hire legions not in barracks but in Governments 1,2,3,4, or in Blacksmiths or Libraries, wherever you want, if you use some descr_buildings magic.

Visually culture is Portraits and Architecture. In game mechanics culture causes unrest. But you don’t want to stop AI Roman faction from dominating, isn’t it? They must be ramm faction from west. Romans would be AI only, so, why do they need own culture?

Armenia and Antropatena with Parthia share Achemenidian legacy and Idea of Great Persia. That is why they can be merged. Also, they would have same architecture and portraits as Parthia, so, no need in special culture. Oh wait, it's not NOM, this starts earlier. In this case Parthia can be Nomad (as in EB), and Antropatena with Armenia Eastern.

No, Japan needs no culture slot (Even if some parts of it would be included.). It would be Eremos, as some other lands (for which no cities would be found).