Impressions of the demo?

[NagatsukaShumi]

I have no knowledge of Japan whatsoever. Still without the noticeable difference I find it very hard to make the choice of choosing a clan. In previous Total War games my choice was based on recruitment of different units between different factions (e.g. I played Russia a lot in M2TW due to the Cossack units and the Boyar sons). But now, I have no idea which clan to pick because to me there's no big difference between the clans other than the location.

I suspect that before you pick the clans there will be a "blurb" telling you about them and what their specialities are, if not it will undoubtedly be posted via a guide on the Org.

Shogun is more about proving your the master of Japan above all others with more or less the same resources at your disposal, rather than Europe which is vast and allows hundreds of cultures.

[Monk]

I suspect that before you pick the clans there will be a "blurb" telling you about them and what their specialities are, if not it will undoubtedly be posted via a guide on the Org.

Not only that, but the game comes with its own encyclopedia (the entirety of which is in the demo) wherein each Clan has its own article. Strengths, weaknesses and a little history are all given for you. Some clans, like the Chokosabe, can recruit much better archers than others. This not only encourages a ranged play-style, but also a much heavier focus on the archery arts (technology).

If you play to your clans strength, not only in army composition but also in tech research, you can easily turn minor strengths into powerful advantages through the course of a campaign. I would assume this was the intention behind the design.

[Prussian to the Iron]

am i the only one who is still unable to use the encyclopedia? all i get is a black window where im assuming it would be.

[antisocialmunky]

It flashes black for me but works after a few seconds.

[Crazed Rabbit]

It being a demo and a beginner's tutorial of all things? Sounds like a pretty good reason to me.

A good reason for the tight scripting and guiding for the tutorial, yes. For the demo I don't see the point of limiting battles.

CR

[Monk]

If you cannot load the encyclopedia from within the demo, try from outside the demo using any internet browser. I found the encyclopedia files at

Steam\steamapps\common\total war shogun 2 demo\data\encyclopedia

The encyclopedia pages are HTML documents, just open one with a browser of your choice. From there you can access whatever you want.

[knoddy]

am i the only one who is still unable to use the encyclopedia? all i get is a black window where im assuming it would be.

mine takes a good 20 secs to load sometimes until then its just a black screen be paitent and see if it loads after a while.

edit : also they just cant win can they. with previous demos people complained that they could never try out the camp map, so finally they put the campaign in the demo in a limited way. and people complain that its too limited. the demo is designed to wet your appetite, they clearly stated the reasons why it was so limited. Yes it sucks you can only play the historical battle and the 3 campaign battles. but if they had put all the battles in the demo would have been like 15gig and tbh who wants that. While alot of people have no internet limits there are some of us who do still have monthly data usage limits that we dont want to exceed with 1 game. thats the main reason i didnt buy online. i could have saved myself like 30$ if i preordered on steam, but i cant use half my data usage in one download.

i also find it funny that people complain that the ai is too slow to react and you have too much time etc etc in previous games. then complain that these battles are too fast paced. just further reinforces what i orignally said which is they just cant win.


what it comes down to is that the demo is exactly that, a demo. it isnt the final realease version, its desiged to give us a little bit of everything so we can get an idea what teh game is like. could they have done it better? yes. does it have bugs? yes.

all in all im impressed with the demo. its enjoyable and i think with the freeplay mod you can have a quite challenging little campaign.

[Swoosh So]

I was highly disappointed, particularly because I got the impression that this was going to be a sort of "back to basics" effort where the developers were really going to work on improving the battle engine. It was not, imho.

Nah thats just what the community wanted :) Who listens to that lot?

[pevergreen]

Nah thats just what the community wanted :) Who listens to that lot?

Hah!

So true.

We complain, they eventually fix, we complain more.

Deadly cycle.

[Kocmoc]

well, there are surely different understandings about what a good TW is. Some are always disappointed. Its about to make the majority happy,
and exactly this i see in the current S2 game. I dont say its perfect, it isnt, but its a good basement, something i didnt saw in many earlyer TW versions.

Now to the demo. Its just a demo, hard to judge. Lets split this a bit in a few points.

1. TW and new things.
TW is TW. You will have a campaign and you will have battles to fight. There is very limited room for huge improvements.
(now i have to be carful not to leak infos....) The engine is from NTW, nothing wrong with it. It works good and a big problem,
the buggy maps, is solved.
There are new things like the skilltree for the gen or the campaign. Its new, its not fundamentally new, but it spice it up.
After all, TW wont change dramatically, the game is like it is and people love it.

2. New Player and the "focus" on MP.
Well, thats another story. The whole system can only work, if there is a minimum on player, if we dont reach that certain amount, we will be in trouble. The matchmaking wont really work and people have a lot of trouble to get opponents around their skilllvl.
Highrated player hardly will enjoy rolling over new player.
The entry into TW is hard. The learning-curve is very low at start, usually the learning-curve is a lot higher, if you look at other games.
People need some little victories at start.

3. Demo. Its hard to judge from the demo. The armies are not balanced, to get a first feeling its good, much more is not possible.
I repeat myself. Unitspeed is fine, there could be some adjustments, still, the first feeling is fine.


There are many points. What i expect from some of you are real points, just a rent without any exact info whats wrong or what you dont like, doesnt help anyone.

This TW game is the first game since many years i really like. There is much work to do, but this feels really good.
The engine is good, it was already good with NTW ( i dont like NTW, its not my era...). Many of the annoying bugs are sorted, maps really work good, which was a big spoiler in NTW for me.

Koc

[knoddy]

one thing i do want to ask, any1 else who is playing free play mod think techs are researched way too fast? im sure i was getting a tech every 2-3 turns, maybe i was just imagining it but if not hoping its a bug with something that prob wasnt spose to be in the demo (i think in the demo your only told to research like 2 techs)


as to free playing in the demo, it shows alot of promise, the white guys on the island (sago?) smashed the green guys (the myioshi?) with whom i was also at war, and then the green guys sued for peace with me cos they had been soo badly beaten. i built up some armies and sent them into the white guys lands only to be greeted by huge full stacks defending their towns :S i promptly got my but kicked and had to run for my life! haha. im impressed and enjoying it :)

[pevergreen]

one thing i do want to ask, any1 else who is playing free play mod think techs are researched way too fast? im sure i was getting a tech every 2-3 turns, maybe i was just imagining it but if not hoping its a bug with something that prob wasnt spose to be in the demo (i think in the demo your only told to research like 2 techs)

I was playing and getting times of like 8 turns for tier 3, 5/6 turns for tier 2.

It will be moddable if nothing else

[knoddy]

I was playing and getting times of like 8 turns for tier 3, 5/6 turns for tier 2.

It will be moddable if nothing else

yea it says 8 turns but im sure it was only taking like 2-3 lol

[Drunk Clown]

I agree that there's too much complaining about this demo; like something minor: "the horses are waaaaaay to big!!!". Which of course ruins the gameplay ...

I mean come on! Is that such a big problem? Do you want guys on ****ing fat ponies? I'd rather have some epic big warhorses than lame ponies.

Or when people play the demo/game for an hour and are immediately convinced they won't buy/play it.... just because they aren't used to it. If I would play Call of Duty () I suck too and have a KDR of 0,1. But I don't blame the game of my failure, instead I pick the game up again and practice enough to not suck. If I would have quited playing a game after every time I ragequited a game session I would have wasted at least € 500.- ! And every time I don't give up on a game and play it long enough to get accustomed I love the game (unless it's really **** but I don't buy ****).

[NagatsukaShumi]

The problem with TWs (and a ton of other popular games) is that the developers must cater to a wide audience. The veterans who played the originals when sales were far lower will always fail "disappointed" as the games are much different to the originals, the newcomers will feel bemused at the little nods to the veterans (like picking the setting in the first place). CA can't please everybody so there will always be murmurings of discontent.

However, game-killing bugs are a problem they can fix for everybody which are justifiably criticised, its little things like "I don't like the era, its stupid" or "all the units are the same and the drawings are stupid" which are pointless, you'll either love the samurai civil war setting and the beautiful artwork or you won't.

[Myth]

You echo my sentiments exactly.

It's the same old. TW needs a revolution. We've had evolutions, we need a whole new battle and campaign system.

No it doesn't. Revolutions tend to be targeting the mass paying audience, in this case - 14 year olds with great computers and with a desire to play oversimplified crap. The TW series is very successful because of the system it has perfected over the years. If it ain't broke - don't fix it! Just make better looking and more realistic (AI wise, economics wise, logsitics wise etc.) versions of MTW and RTW and I'd be happy, and most of the other older fans as well. If you want revolutionary you have to look to the MMORPG scene as that's the new "hot" thing everyone's investing in. Games likre the TW series, Thief 2, HOMM3 etc. will remain classics and the best that can be done with them is for them to be remade and improved without the core concept changing.

[The Black Ship]

One thing I noticed while playing the free play mod was the AI isn't afraid to use ashis. The large armies being created contain a preponderance of ashigaru yari and archers with (usually) only sword samurai units. As Knoddy says, it can be quite effective against an opponent (like me) that insists on using samurai only armies. 1500 vs 750 doesn't work.

In my opinion, anyone making a buy/no buy decision based off this demo is crazy. The battles we're allowed to play cannot tell us if the game's AI works better than previous TW games.

I'll let you fence sitters know...I went ahead and pre-ordered weeks ago simply because I like the era, and wanted to encourage companies to do more games. I'm hoping for the best.

[pdoan8]

IMO, ashigaru (both yari and bow) are pretty good and much cheaper than samurai. They are more cost effective for large standing army.

In my opinion, anyone making a buy/no buy decision based off this demo is crazy. The battles we're allowed to play cannot tell us if the game's AI works better than previous TW games.

Not crazy, just being conservative. RTW, M2TW (+ Kingdoms), I learned my lesson. I have not preorder any game since. There are 2 most important factors that influence my game-buying decision: 1) Honest, in depth review which effectively point out the features that make the game worth buying. 2) First impression on the demo. Is it the type of game I want? Will it run on my machines? So far, there hasn't been many good, honest review on S2TW. The demo fell a bit short. The newer features since RTW that I didn't like. Other features aren't highly interesting (well, not much could have been done in the demo anyway). I was hoping for something that will draw me back to TW series. The demo only runs on one of my 3 machines.

The final verdict: I'll wait until S2TW proves that it could beat STW/MTW to claim the time slot.

[Forward Observer]

I liked the demo well enough that I will still pre-order the game. Being a TW fan, I would have done so anyway, and it would have had to have been pretty bad for me not to.

I was very disappointed with the problems that plagued Empire at release, but since this game is using essentially the same game engine and is more focused as Napoleon was, I have my hopes that it will be a more finished product this time around.

There's a few minor things I could quible about---like troops movement commands seeming to default to run, requiring an additional command change back to walk, or trying to get accustomed to minor camera and command control changes, but nothing I can't adapt or get used to.

On a related note, here's a tip that worked for me in the siege battle. Do not use the cannons to batter down the first gate, but instead use them to take out the one main arrow tower just to the right of the gate. This effectively eliminates the one constant and nagging source of arrow fire raining down on any of your troops as they approach the outer wall.

Since all your troops can scale walls, you really don't need the gate for access anyway. Besides, once you control the level the gate is automatically opened. You have more archers than the enemy plus you can resupply them if you take the village structure to the right front of your starting position, so eliminating this tower early gives you superiority in ranged weapon fire.

Of course I still lost archers trading arrows with the enemy, but having that tower out of the way simply made the first level of the fortress much easier to take with fewer losses.

The enemy general unit also kept running around on the first level, so they had completely routed from my missile fire before I had hardly stormed the same level. The battle was pretty much a given from that point on.

Cheers

[jean_s]

I have conquered all the provinces on the map :). It was quite cool. :)
Can't wait to try the full game :D.

[Justy_SG]

not so good impression for me but i wish the multi improve & chat lounge come back, me will still buy it :)

because it is Total War.

[Nelson]

On a related note, here's a tip that worked for me in the siege battle. Do not use the cannons to batter down the first gate, but instead use them to take out the one main arrow tower just to the right of the gate. This effectively eliminates the one constant and nagging source of arrow fire raining down on any of your troops as they approach the outer wall.

Forward Observer fires for effect! No surprise there!

On my first siege battle the battery was out of ammunition before I had even surveyed the dispositions. Being used to Empires endless shot I thought the guns were broken in the demo. I have since learned to quickly redirect the guns as soon as the battle begins. I've found that there is ammo enough to wreck two towers and the front gate. Capturing the buildings however did not rearm the battery. The capture point was too far away I guess.

I haven't tried buring the towers with fire arrows but that works according to other posts I have read.

[gollum]

originally posted by Swoosh So
Nah thats just what the community wanted :) Who listens to that lot?

What about your impressions, Swoosh?

[TosaInu]

My Steamgames work, but not the TWS2 demo, I can't download a new copy either?

[edyzmedieval]

My Steamgames work, but not the TWS2 demo, I can't download a new copy either?

Delete the S2TW demo and reinstall again. If not, reinstall Steam, there's always issues with corrupted profile files that don't show games in the library and prevent some others from running properly.

[UglyJun]

well i clocked up nearly 21 hours on the demo and the All factions Playable mod,
i love the new skill trees, they add more depths without adding millions of useless units ! Hopefully this means the game is gone back to its roots :) The atmosphere in game is just like stw was :) awesome !!! the new multi player options coop etc.. i am looking forward too:)
ps: and after 10years i hope they fixed the rout bug from stw lol

[TosaInu]

Delete the S2TW demo and reinstall again. If not, reinstall Steam, there's always issues with corrupted profile files that don't show games in the library and prevent some others from running properly.

I uninstalled and instaled again, that fixed it. Had to download all those gigs again: good thing I'm not having 5 kbs anymore.

[Monk]

well i clocked up nearly 21 hours on the demo and the All factions Playable mod,
i love the new skill trees, they add more depths without adding millions of useless units ! Hopefully this means the game is gone back to its roots :) The atmosphere in game is just like stw was :) awesome !!! the new multi player options coop etc.. i am looking forward too:)
ps: and after 10years i hope they fixed the rout bug from stw lol

I'm up to about 10 hours myself. Amazed at two things: How varied the response to the demo has been and two, how fun I'm finding it. Here I thought i was jaded into never enjoying a vanilla gameplay experience again.

[phonicsmonkey]

My very first impressions are:

I have just played the tutorial campaign so far but I liked it. The battles were very easy but I'm hoping that's because of the scripting and the fact that your units are far superior (don't want to put the customer off by letting them lose a battle, eh?).

It seems to have the best features from Empire but simplified (eg. the tech tree and the economy and trade system). I like the new agents. All in all it looks like it could be a very replayable game in both SP and in terms of multiplayer campaigns (my real joy in life).

I'm going to use the unlock mod now and also try the custom and historical battle released by the same guy.

Oh, and it looks beautiful.

[gollum]

Indeed phonics monkey, it looks and it also sounds beautiful (Jeff Van Dyke rocks). In this regard its really and unambiguously well done and worthy of the original game.