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  1. #1
    Member Megas Methuselah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Aggressive factions are unrealistic

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot View Post
    (I don't think they exist in Empire or Napoleon, but they might do).
    Yeah, they exist in Empire. Pretend you conquer France. If that province becomes rebellious and successfully casts aside your authority, rather than the rebels becoming part of the standard rebel faction, it becomes a re-emergent France. Almost all of the factions in ETW can re-emerge from rebellions in their former-capital provinces, which is one of the few reasons why I love the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbin
    we are looking at the possibility of having re-emergent factions though.
    I hope everything works out, bro.
    Last edited by Megas Methuselah; 03-04-2011 at 07:32.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Aggressive factions are unrealistic

    I remember this one AMAZING game i had, as lusitanni, where everyone balanced out everyone else. No superpowers emerged. AND no intervention from me, aside from what lusitanni would usually do. And, that was after a lot of years too.

    Seleucia and ptolemies had fought to a standstill. ptolemies had lost the whole syrian coast to seleukids, but kept the whole egypt. however seleucia was crippled, cuz in the east bactrians and pahlavans had divided the kingdom pretty much half/half, as far as just south of the caspian sea i believe. as for asia minor, pontus took it, then lost to KH (who had taken the whole continental Greece, but were at peace with epirus who was confining them to greece), who then lost it to the Lesbo makedonian empire. The hai were warring up north, fighting against sauromatae and their "protectors", the (KH) bosphoran kingdom.
    The aedui won the civil war and were quite dominant for a bit, but then they invaded iberia and lost a lot of troops doing that. after that, sweboz had the northeast, romans the southeast and me the southwest, aedui confined in the northwest. Romans had good drives, but always had a major thorn in their side. Carthage was actually winning the war down south. then i attacked carthage, and romans retook the south (and sicilia), but then epiros sent this one army that cut a large swath into roman territories, and i challenged them in Gaul (took the southwest from 'em). they just couldn't catch a break.

    Just to say, changes dont have to be drastic. it's already possible to have that awesome game OP was talking about. Just extremely rare. a little tweaking and the new engine hopefully will make it happen more often.

  3. #3
    Member Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Aggressive factions are unrealistic

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzeda View Post
    Just to say, changes dont have to be drastic. it's already possible to have that awesome game OP was talking about. Just extremely rare. a little tweaking and the new engine hopefully will make it happen more often.
    Yea, I don't think factions are going to emerge as superpowers as quickly as they do in EB 1. For starters, there is going to be 10 new factions, which means AI factions will have more opposition and there won't be as many blank provinces for them to conquer. As many people have already said the diplomatic AI is a little more reasonable and honors alliances more frequently. Also the government buildings have been replaced with the authority buildings, which if I remember correctly are supposed to represent the difficulties of exerting influence over a province, so If I'm interpreting their function right I think we can expect to see more province rebellions than we did in EB 1.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Aggressive factions are unrealistic

    Hmm... I think factions which emerge are impossible to defeat completely but not sure how you can make re-emergent factions from start.

  5. #5
    Member Member WinsingtonIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Aggressive factions are unrealistic

    The way some M2TW mods simulate reemerging factions is with the horde ability. When you destroy a faction, they will instead horde and wander off to claim a new homeland/reclaim their old one. It's a feature that works pretty well for nomadic factions, and probably works OK for "barbarian" factions, but it looks really silly to see a "Republic of Venice" horde moving down the Italian peninsula to settle a new Republic of Venice located in Bologna.
    from Megas Methuselah, for some information on Greek colonies in Iberia.



  6. #6

    Default Re: Aggressive factions are unrealistic

    I'm generally content with EB as it is, but since we're discussing whether EB superpowers are realistic or not, I would like to agree with the point, that in EB the AI is like - well - a person who keeps being hungry no matter how much he eats. In real life, the Ptollies might dream of taking Syria and parts of Anatolia and Macedonia. But taking both Carthage and India seems very improbable. I know the Roman Empire and Alexanders Empire were that large, but in EB these states happen a little too often. But I've always supposed it was to do with the game engine and therefore a pointless discussion. In real life, even great conquerors would still operate with a "sphere of influence" and not move outside what was possible to govern from their heartland. But in EB, great expansion is easier than in real life + even when it isn't, the AI doesnt' care. That's why Ptollies suddenly turn up in southern Russia. The reason this is annoying is because its unrealistic that a Ptolemaic King would not have shown moderation and even if his forces were large enough to conquer southern Russia, he would have gone to the point, where there were natural borders (fx Armenia) and then stopped there.
    Alexander conquered a lot, but what he conquered was mostly Persian, so though a large territory, it was territory that was "used to" being together. The Roam Empire took a long time to make. In EB, the AI never has enough, so it never decides to stop a war, having gotten what it came for. It keeps driving on, whether feasible or not.
    But as I said, though i agree with you who argue that this is unrealistic, I still dont think it can be changed, and its a small price for as great a game as EB. So dont know why it's been argued so vehemently as it is here. Cheers ;)
    Last edited by artaxerxes; 03-05-2011 at 20:23.
    Moreover, I advise that Syracusans must be added to EB (insp. by Cato the Elder )

    Is looking forward to the 2090's, when EB 20.0 will be released - spanning the entire Eurasian continent and having no Eleutheroi - with a faction for every independent state instead. Look out for the Gedrosians, the Cretans and the kingdom of Kallatis!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Aggressive factions are unrealistic

    I'm pretty sure there is a mod for that exact issue, where the AI will act in accordance to their victory conditions rather than just haphazardly conquering in a mindless fashion. I find it so weird how long it takes Rome to conquer the Italian Peninsula in my games, yet they always have the coasts west to Iberia. This leaves the very open to Barbarians and they often get crushed by Carthage as Carthage is much more consolidated. I just want to fight Marian Legions! (I have the RS Legion mod)

  8. #8
    mostly harmless Member B-Wing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Aggressive factions are unrealistic

    While I think you are right that the AI factions can be given priorities on what regions to conquer, I don't think that it actually limits their direction of expansion. It just determines where they will go for first. Still, could be very useful for certain factions, like Armenia, who really should focus on the lands south of the Caucasus instead of those north.

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