Boxing or Kickboxing?

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I was thinking of taking up some self-defense thing and I was leaning towards Kickboxing. What one of these two you think is better?

[Cute Wolf]

Id said kickboxing, they had more lethal accidents afterall, and the original Muay thay was an art of killing.

But I suggest you start from easy martial arts first, a kind of Taekwondo or Karate (for some time until you can have "body balance") since muay thai stances are quite difficult to maintain if you don't have good balance

[Vuk]

Most any martial art can be an effective form of self-defense if you train the right way (after all, most martial arts were invented for a reason, and were combat tested). I would go with kickboxing as it is more robust. Again though, it is no good if you do not train the right way.

[Fragony]

Kickboxing is easy to pick up, you'll get the basics in a few lessons. After that it's building up endurance. Forget about karate and all that other oriental nonsense (except judo), it's useless for practical purposes unless you have done it for years.

[Cute Wolf]

Kickboxing is easy to pick up, you'll get the basics in a few lessons. After that it's building up endurance. Forget about karate and all that other oriental nonsense (except judo), it's useless for practical purposes unless you have done it for years.

well, the most practical way to self defense here is carrying a gun under your coat, too bad, I only have knives and axes

[Vuk]

Kickboxing is easy to pick up, you'll get the basics in a few lessons. After that it's building up endurance. Forget about karate and all that other oriental nonsense (except judo), it's useless for practical purposes unless you have done it for years.

lol, you are very wrong Frags. It depends completely on how it is taught and how it is trained.

[Centurion1]

boxing i have for 9 years now. its got much farther benefits than self defense. just dont bother if you have a glass jaw..... or do and i guess you can try to overcome it though i dont know if that stuff can be worked past.

message me if you want some info on boxing.

[Strike For The South]

The one time I boxed I detached my retna

Now I just carry knives or clubs, I have no use to prove my manhood in a fight, I'd much rather cause serious brain damage than do some antquated mating ritual in which the strongest survive

[Centurion1]

well i find boxing enjoyable. you were participating in organized boxing strike? if so thats pretty bad luck ive only seen that happen once

[Strike For The South]

well i find boxing enjoyable. you were participating in organized boxing strike? if so thats pretty bad luck ive only seen that happen once

No, and we didnt have gloves

So in reality some of the blame probably lies with me and my idoit friends

Took a hell of a punch though

[Centurion1]

yeah he probably broke his finger...... damn thats some good force. like i said with gloves i have only seen that happen once in a match for a golden gloves match and i had to fight the kid who did it in two matches.

but yeah fighting without proper gloves or the rules is a recipe for disaster.

[Vuk]

The one time I boxed I detached my retna

Now I just carry knives or clubs, I have no use to prove my manhood in a fight, I'd much rather cause serious brain damage than do some antquated mating ritual in which the strongest survive

So are you saying then that boxing is impractical? Also, I hate to clue you, but a knife or a club may not do you a heck of a lot of good if you do not know how to use them (esp if someone gets you from behind).

[Strike For The South]

So are you saying then that boxing is impractical? Also, I hate to clue you, but a knife or a club may not do you a heck of a lot of good if you do not know how to use them (esp if someone gets you from behind).

No very practical I just don't do it

People usually don't screw with me becuase I usually don't screw with people. Walk with confidence and the muggers will find someone else. I entertain no back alley fantasies

[Vuk]

No very practical I just don't do it

People usually don't screw with me becuase I usually don't screw with people. Walk with confidence and the muggers will find someone else. I entertain no back alley fantasies

lol, but you don't think that it is important to have something for an emergency? Then why do you carry a knife? Actually Strike, I have been attacked twice, and right on Campus in the middle of day. I have also been attacked while at a State park. People are confrontational beings, and whether you wish it or not, there is a good statistical chance that some time in your life you are going to be forced into a physical confrontation. Some people of course are in positions where it is more likely than others.

[Strike For The South]

haha, Did you know your attackers? Were you being confrontational?

I've never been attacked nor do I ever think it'll happen. I also am at a point where I just prefer to do the most bodily harm the quickest. If someone attacks me they forefit rights. Once again, I entertain no illusions. Fights are nasty, short, and brutish won by those willing to escalate the level of violence

[Vuk]

haha, Did you know your attackers? Were you being confrontational?

I've never been attacked nor do I ever think it'll happen. I also am at a point where I just prefer to do the most bodily harm the quickest. If someone attacks me they forefit rights. Once again, I entertain no illusions. Fights are nasty, short, and brutish won by those willing to escalate the level of violence

To answer your question, yes, I did know my attackers (both of them), but I was not being confrontational.

Let me as you a question now, who said that you could not use a martial art (such as Kickboxing) to inflict bodily harm as quickly as possible. Who ever said that you had to go easy on someone or that a fight was not nasty?

[Centurion1]

boxing and kickboxing are sports not martial arts. and neither are good for self defense.

[Vuk]

boxing and kickboxing are sports not martial arts. and neither are good for self defense.

I would agree with modern sports boxing if not combined with other things, but not so with kickboxing. I think that you can easily put a self-defense spin on kickboxing and make it VERY effective. People tell me the same thing about TKD, and yet I can kick some @$$ with TKD. It just depends on how you train, and on realistic expectations. For instance, I believe that it is not practical to rely solely on something like TKD or kickboxing, but that does not mean that they cannot be used very effectively.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

No very practical I just don't do it

People usually don't screw with me becuase I usually don't screw with people. Walk with confidence and the muggers will find someone else. I entertain no back alley fantasies

That's what I do. Walk like a SOB and you usually get left alone, but if you do get jumped.....

[Fragony]

yeah he probably broke his finger...... damn thats some good force. like i said with gloves i have only seen that happen once in a match for a golden gloves match and i had to fight the kid who did it in two matches.

but yeah fighting without proper gloves or the rules is a recipe for disaster.

If you don't have any dislocated knuckles and broken ribs you aren't the real thing! It only hurts a little bit absolutely much

True about martial arts, boxing and kickboxing are offensive sports. Nothing to with arts it's all endurance. Will put my money on a kickboxer over all that eastern hallelujah every time, looks fun in movies

@Vukkie, would you ever consider a fancy TKD high kick in a real fight. Barely going to hurt they move at ya to use their fists, you lose balance bye

[Vuk]

@Vukkie, would you ever consider a fancy TKD high kick in a real fight. Barely going to hurt they move at ya to use their fists, you lose balance bye

lol Frags, first of all, you practice high kicks in TKD mainly to better your technique, balance, etc. In a real fight, TKD would mostly be applied below the belt. (rounds and fronts to the knees. Fronts to the groin, etc.) Also, when getting close up, TKD has a powerful arsenal of punches, elbows, grabs, and various other techniques that would make him be able to defeat a much more limited boxer. Also, it is not right to say that high kicks have no place in a real fight. If you shoot forward with a switching (double action, or whatever you prefer to call it) front kick from 10 feet away and plow your full body (concentrated on the ball of your foot) into your opponent's face or throat, do you think that that would have no effect? I garuntee you that a boxer would not even expect you to be able to attack from that distance, and that you would have reached him and defeated him before he even knew what happened.
Also, a good TKDist can generate a lot of power; especially from such techniques as a side (or backspinning side). A lunging side kick is very hard to avoid, nearly impossible to stop, can be performed very quickly, and has devastating power.
I am not saying that TKD would be my prefered method of self-defense (Wing Tsjun would be :)), but I think that you are wrong to discount it as you do, and I think that it is far superior to something like boxing. My guess is that you are basing your judgement on the way that TKD is trained in the average DON'T-SUE-ME-McDojo. Real TKD has a lot more to it than just kicks, and involves heavy conditioning, reflex training, and lot's of live practice.
No offense Frags, but boxing does not hold a feather to real TKD (assuming that both are trained to their full potential).

[Fragony]

heh ever been in a fight you don't seem the type. Been in a lot when I was younger, I'm from the countryside fighting with the kids from other villages was all the fun we had. It goes really fast and it starts with pushing and holding, if you can actually lunge a kick in the face or throat in the heat of things I must bow for a master

As for potential, who always win the freestyle contests. Kickboxers do. Almost exclusively

[Strike For The South]

heh ever been in a fight you don't seem the type. Been in a lot when I was younger, I'm from the countryside fighting with the kids from other villages was all the fun we had. It goes really fast and it starts with pushing and holding, if you can actually lunge a kick in the face or throat in the heat of things I must bow for a master

oh geez

[Vuk]

heh ever been in a fight you don't seem the type. Been in a lot when I was younger, I'm from the countryside fighting with the kids from other villages was all the fun we had. It goes really fast and it starts with pushing and holding, if you can actually lunge a kick in the face or throat in the heat of things I must bow for a master

As for potential, who always win the freestyle contests. Kickboxers do. Almost exclusively

Yeah, I have been in fights before. I don't let fights get that close. If someone wants to start something, my preference is to end it before it gets to grappling. Yeah, I understand that that is not always possible (both the fights I have been in have started with someone trying to strike me (one was a boxer)), but like I said, TKD has lots of non-kick ways to deal with close situations. (knees, elbows, punches, grabs, various strikes, etc)
Also, it is really not all that hard to land a high-kick in a fight. (I have only ever been in two real fights, once was too close for a high kick, but the other wasn't) If you have trained well, you should have no problem getting a kick to someone's face in nearly the time it would take them to launch a punch at yours (or faster, depending on who you are fighting). The great thing about forward, lunging kicks is that they are very direct and fast. They are also hard to track, and can be launched from a far range. If it is a switching kick, it is all the more deceptive, as your opponent will raise his knee expecting a kick from the first action, and then the second action will strike him in the face.
The problem with TKD is not TKD, it is all the idiots who practice TKD. And as I said, I would much prefer to use Wing Tsjun.

[Afonso I of Portugal]

I was thinking of taking up some self-defense thing and I was leaning towards Kickboxing. What one of these two you think is better?

Neither! Why don't you try Krav Maga? That's pure hand-to-hand combat and that's what i practice now.

General principles include:
- Counter attacking as soon as possible (or attacking preemptively).
- Targeting attacks to the body's most vulnerable points such as the eyes, jaw, throat, groin, knee etc.
- Neutralizing the opponent as quickly as possible by responding with an unbroken stream of counter attacks and if necessary a take down/joint break.
- Maintaining awareness of surroundings while dealing with the threat in order to look for escape routes, further attackers, objects that could be used to defend or help attack and so on.

[Centurion1]

[ Play nicely, Cent! - Sec]

[Vuk]

No, I am not. It is just that the fights you are used to are fights between two talentless bums who don't know anything about how to really fight. You have to end a fight fast; there is not time for dancing around throwing punches or rolling on the floor in an indecent manner. You use your speed and your weight, you dislodge your enemy and end the fight. That simple.
Boxing does not work in a fight, because it has no defense, is extremely limited (no kicking, grappling, etc), and does not make good use of mass. Grappling is useless against more than one person, and only will work one on one if either your opponent doesn't know what they are doing or tries to grapple back. Both boxing and grappling are way too limited. TKD is a lot more all-encompassing, and makes much better use of mass.

[Vuk]

Neither! Why don't you try Krav Maga? That's pure hand-to-hand combat and that's what i practice now.

General principles include:
- Counter attacking as soon as possible (or attacking preemptively).
- Targeting attacks to the body's most vulnerable points such as the eyes, jaw, throat, groin, knee etc.
- Neutralizing the opponent as quickly as possible by responding with an unbroken stream of counter attacks and if necessary a take down/joint break.
- Maintaining awareness of surroundings while dealing with the threat in order to look for escape routes, further attackers, objects that could be used to defend or help attack and so on.

I agree, Krav Maga is an extremely efficient martial art (next to Wing Tsjun and MCMAP, probably the best), and will serve you much better than boxing or kickboxing (or TKD for that matter).
It actually shares many principles in common with Wing Tsjun:
Simultaneous defense and attack.
Targetting vulnerable areas.
Chain attacks, etc, etc.

The techniques can be very different, but they share the same principles (which are much more important than the individual techniques).

[Vuk]

On the subject of boxing and TKD, these TKDist are better boxers than any amateur boxers I have seen. They got better form, speed, and power.

[Fragony]

(kick)boxing makes excellent use of weight. You won't be caught of balance. No offence but you've only been in two real fights, you have little hope of winning from someone more routined. Here's why: you are thinking about what you are doing. (kick)boxing is closest to a real fight so it absolutely got the edge.