First impressions thread

**Satsuma** · 03-16-2011, 15:53

Originally Posted by xploring

That's 53 years. 1600-1547

oh yeah.....
That'll teach me to post at 3am....
FML.

**Doug-Thompson** · 03-16-2011, 16:54

Foot archers actually seem to skirmish well now. This means they should work much more effectively with spears and other melee infantry, making a much better combo. In the past, at least against the AI, I was always able to either charge foot archers before melee units could rescue them, or simply keep the foot archers moving. They can't fire on the move, so the practical effect was to remove them as an effective unit.

Notably, there are no missile cavalry that are armed with javelins. Also, there are no true "double duty" missile cavalry that can melee well. Missile cavalry will have to work with melee units now in close coordination. I don't mean to give the impression that bow cavalry have been "nerfed." That's not true at all. An unsupported melee infantry unit will still melt in front of good bow cavalry. It's just that missile cavalry is no longer as untouchable as it was in M2TW.

Very importantly, light cavalry are faster than bow cavalry now. This should give light cavalry a much more useful role than they ever had in M2TW. Earlier, much of the best missile cavalry was at least as fast as light cav. Also, many of the slower missile cavalry units could melee more effectively than light cav.

In Medieval, either a light cavalry unit would never catch a missile cavalry unit and get shot to pieces while trying, or they'd catch the unit only to lose the fight. You might as well build heavy cav because they were almost as good at chasing away horse archers or pursuit and better at everything else. That's apparently not true in Shogun 2.

**gollum** · 03-16-2011, 17:04

I don't think that there was javelin cavalry in the period.

It all sounds good for playbalance, especially that mounted missiles aren;t untouchable. They were impossible to counter in M2 and RTW unless you had your own. M2 was particularly bad because of how string charges were on top of it.

In STW and MTW mounted missiles would be caught by light cavs and playbalance was much better because they had a counter.

**Quickening** · 03-16-2011, 19:28

Personally, I think you're all mental for buying this game considering how atrocious Total War and Creative Assembly have been in the past few years. Nonetheless I'm reading this forum with interest just to see if your faith has been rewarded. I won't buy this game no matter what, but a friend of mine did and on the first siege he had the AI moved one single unit to attack his city and it obviously got annihilated. After that the AI just stood there and took the missile hits. Sounds like the "good old days" of Total War to me. But that's his experience, anyone here had any sieges yet? They were just disasterous in Empire.

**Zarky** · 03-16-2011, 20:13

Originally Posted by Quickening

a friend of mine did and on the first siege he had the AI moved one single unit to attack his city and it obviously got annihilated. After that the AI just stood there and took the missile hits. Sounds like the "good old days" of Total War to me. But that's his experience, anyone here had any sieges yet? They were just disasterous in Empire.

I've been the defender on quite many sieges, there was 1 siege where AI for some reason refused to send its archers to firing range (3 units) when I had 1, so I had to go and get them. Though at another siege AI sent its general to firing range of my archers (6 units this time) and just stood there, but this was late in the siege when enemy only had 1 other unit not routing. Now that you need generals around to keep morale up, AI seems a bit reckless and throws them to combat (not directly charging spear units at least).

**knoddy** · 03-16-2011, 20:51

Originally Posted by Quickening

Personally, I think you're all mental for buying this game considering how atrocious Total War and Creative Assembly have been in the past few years. Nonetheless I'm reading this forum with interest just to see if your faith has been rewarded. I won't buy this game no matter what, but a friend of mine did and on the first siege he had the AI moved one single unit to attack his city and it obviously got annihilated. After that the AI just stood there and took the missile hits. Sounds like the "good old days" of Total War to me. But that's his experience, anyone here had any sieges yet? They were just disasterous in Empire.

defeneded plenty of seiges, the ai is definitely improved. in every siege the ai split its forces and attacked from diff sides. and im yet to see suicidal generals, in every seige the general waits outside missile range then when all other units are routing they dismount and attack on foot.

**Doug-Thompson** · 03-16-2011, 21:42

Originally Posted by Quickening

Personally, I think you're all mental for buying this game considering how atrocious Total War and Creative Assembly have been in the past few years. Nonetheless I'm reading this forum with interest just to see if your faith has been rewarded.

Too early to tell, but your comment is interesting. I never played Empire Total War much and didn't even buy Napoleon Total War. Shogun 2 brought me back. As you can see from checking my profile, I've only just started posting on these forums again after an absence of two and a half years.

**Quickening** · 03-16-2011, 21:52

Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson

Too early to tell, but your comment is interesting. I never played Empire Total War much and didn't even buy Napoleon Total War. Shogun 2 brought me back. As you can see from checking my profile, I've only just started posting on these forums again after an absence of two and a half years.

I loved Rome and Medieval II despite the plethora of bugs that remain to this day, but Empire was just a disaster in every conceivable way, and it still is. It should just be forgotten and never mentioned ever again. Napoleon was improved but by then it was too late and I'd already sworn not to buy another Total War game. If they released a Medieval 3 or a Rome 2 I admit I'd be tempted, but it would have to be unmissable. Deep down I was hoping that Shogun 2 would show that CA have at least learned not to release unfinished games.

**gollum** · 03-16-2011, 22:05

Hello Quickening,
i haven' bought the game yet as i am interested to play mp, and i am waiting to see how that will turn out, but i think that the setting is just too good for a TW game from an SP perspective. If i was interested only in that i would have bought the game, it certainly seems good in terms of immersion and atmosphere and the fact that walls can be scaled by infantry shouldhelp the AI a lot. Also the game is not a missile weapon's game which the AI uses badly. I agree with you that Empire was mediocre at best, but i would give it a try if i wanted to play SP only.

**Jasper The Builder** · 03-16-2011, 22:15

Originally Posted by Quickening

I loved Rome and Medieval II despite the plethora of bugs that remain to this day, but Empire was just a disaster in every conceivable way, and it still is. It should just be forgotten and never mentioned ever again. Napoleon was improved but by then it was too late and I'd already sworn not to buy another Total War game. If they released a Medieval 3 or a Rome 2 I admit I'd be tempted, but it would have to be unmissable. Deep down I was hoping that Shogun 2 would show that CA have at least learned not to release unfinished games.

Empire is an amazing game, what the hell you talking about...

**crpcarrot** · 03-17-2011, 09:56

Originally Posted by Quickening

Personally, I think you're all mental for buying this game considering how atrocious Total War and Creative Assembly have been in the past few years. Nonetheless I'm reading this forum with interest just to see if your faith has been rewarded. I won't buy this game no matter what, but a friend of mine did and on the first siege he had the AI moved one single unit to attack his city and it obviously got annihilated. After that the AI just stood there and took the missile hits. Sounds like the "good old days" of Total War to me. But that's his experience, anyone here had any sieges yet? They were just disasterous in Empire.

I know what u mean Quick but i caved in and downloaded the game last night. ETW was a real let down i probably played only one campain on that game, didnt even bother with NTW but the demo for shogun felt soo good.........

**Doug-Thompson** · 03-16-2011, 21:37

Originally Posted by gollum

I don't think that there was javelin cavalry in the period.

I phrased that badly. I didn't mean to imply criticism of CA for not including jav-cav. I'm just saying that the lack of jinette-type units is a significant difference from M2.

It all sounds good for playbalance, especially that mounted missiles aren;t untouchable. They were impossible to counter in M2 and RTW unless you had your own. M2 was particularly bad because of how string charges were on top of it.

Agreed.