First impressions thread

[Red_Russian13]

I just don't see the Nanban trade ports as that big of a deal. Their conversion is easily outdone by a Buddhist temple and a single good monk, if you can't spare that much, should you really be letting the Nanban in? I think insane is overstating it, annoying is more like it.

Fair enough. I have not done any rigorous scientific studies, but I recall the port getting a 3.5 conversion bonus, and some have also lamented about having to use 3 monks or something to combat it. I cannot remember what a good Buddhist temple gives. I'll have to try it out.

[Dead Guy]

I agree with pretty much all your points, Red Russian13.

The zoom'n'twist thing is pretty annoying, even in your turn when, for example, an enemy fleet withdraws, and you don't get to see where to because you're looking at your fleet.

Not too bothered by not being able to complete the tech-tree though. I actually think that's a pretty good thing. I like choices and consequences in games. Instead of being done with tech and converting all your schools to textile mills ~100 turns from the end, you actually have to choose which arts you want to pursue in each campaign.

[Gregoshi]

Not too bothered by not being able to complete the tech-tree though. I actually think that's a pretty good thing. I like choices and consequences in games. Instead of being done with tech and converting all your schools to textile mills ~100 turns from the end, you actually have to choose which arts you want to pursue in each campaign.

Exactly. I like all the choices the game throws at you. I'll sit there and aggonize over such decisions.

[Red_Russian13]

I agree with pretty much all your points, Red Russian13.

Not too bothered by not being able to complete the tech-tree though. I actually think that's a pretty good thing. I like choices and consequences in games. Instead of being done with tech and converting all your schools to textile mills ~100 turns from the end, you actually have to choose which arts you want to pursue in each campaign.

Thanks, Dead Guy.

I'm sort of torn about the tech tree. I guess I figure if I dedicate time and energy to it, I should be able to get most of the tech. But like Gregoshi said, it's neat to sort of mull your options. Definitely makes it more challenging.

[quadalpha]

I remember reading somewhere that "not being able to research all the tech" was a design feature.

[ByzantineKnight]

Just as a heads up, Steam has an offline mode that you can use. It won't patch the game or require an internet connection. Not nearly as convenient as a CD copy with downloadable patches but workable.

[therother]

I like the arts tree as well, balances the game somewhat as the player doesn't rush ahead tech-wise. I've found if you dedicate monk and general skill points to the chi arts and capture/build libraries, you can get most of them, especially if you don't care about some arts until later in the game when your rate bonuses are much larger than at the start of the game.

The Nanban Quarter is a bit of a pain, 6% conversion per turn in the province plus 3% in all neighbouring provinces. That's a lot, given you only have a limited number of monks, and I'd rather be using them to incite and demoralise than counter conversion. Seems like Sado is the ideal place to build it, with a temple and a decent monk! You do get the Nanban trade ship which, whilst not as powerful as the Black Ship, still packs a mighty punch versus standard Japanese vessels. And if you have access to the famous temple (or the temple complex with a good monk and alternate his province), it's not so much of a problem.

As an aside, can't you turn off auto-updating? I seem to recall a steam option somewhere to do that. I've not had a problem with it, but I suppose I tend to not shut the game down that much.

[seireikhaan]

Start numero uno, with shimazu. Recruit couple of turns, take army to next province over, lay siege. General from fow pops in and tries to relieve, get a battle against 1100 or so with my 800. AI does some idiot things with its cavalry and I win handily with only about 175 casualties. Next turn, occupy near empty castle. Wait a bit, recruit a bit, heal a bit. 6 turns later, send army to east, thinking it was last enemy province. March out. Get popup saying guys north are backstabbing me. Meanwhile, old enemy's general with about 2000 troops pops in through FoW north of me through a passage in mountains I didn't know he had access to. He has one turn to get to my more or less defenseless capital, I have 3 to get there with my army.... Rage quit, start over.

Try numero dose, again with Shimazu. Same beginning as last, up through occupying first castle. I probe a bit east this time for enemies afterwards, but don't make a comittment, end up beating a few randoms down. Given a bit of time, and a more reasonably well defended castle, I venture eastward to take enemy's castle. Along the way, enemy commander with their army(waiting in the same passage as last time) decides to try and beat me to their castle. I reach it first, take it with no effort against a single unit. He burns a village on the way to a siege defense, where I thwart him somewhat soundly, though I took some casualties. Next turn, Shoni declare war on me with their ally, the dudes north of me, on the turn they both decide to send armies(about 1200 and 1800 each), ending easily 1 turn away from the capital, which has about 800, mostly ashigaru, units. .....

Might try a hand at that tomorrow.

edit: oh right, game quality. Well, AI's been kinda idiotic with its cavalry thus far, but was decidedly impressive in coordinating two factions to get their armies at me in a "timely" fashion. Game's pretty. I dl's a mod to reduce unit speed, so its a bit better paced than I recall the demo being. Ashigarus route fast for my taste, however. Need a slight morale boost or something. Maybe its more reasonable later in game though. Favorable so far, I guess.

[Rothe]

Pros:
- Shogun theme, I loved the book "Shogun" and the time period is nice for variety of troop types etc.
- Improved AI: for me, the AI is a bit improved, although it is not a big jump forward from ETW
- Tech tree: I like the split and the fact that you probably can't research everything. Also, you can't just go with bushido or chi and forget about the other side.
- Generals: I like the XP system (Also see agents). It is really nice to be able to customize the generals.
- Agents: I like the RP side of the agents, and the fact that they added ways to hamper agents without killing them is nice. It makes it possible for the agents to develop without getting killed before they get to be good at anything.
- Unit variety: Just a starting observation that might change, but it seems the units are varied enough
- RPS: RPS seems to work for most of the units. Heavy infantry seems to break that a bit, being good enough vs. spears and cavalry at the same time.
- Visuals: Looks really nice, but still plays ok with Ultra detail on my 2 years old PC.

Cons:
- Bugs: I get a CTD when I start my second battle in a "session" of play. No idea why. I have to save a lot.
- Twisting camera on the campaign map. I don't enjoy it too much.
- Campaign AI attacks fortified towns too easily. AI should not attack towns without superior troops, especially it if lacks a back up army to defend its nearest castle. The fact is that the fortifications make the battles really lopsided, especially if the defender has missile troops.
- Suicidal generals: Not as bad as in earlier TW's, but the enemy generals still often charge in. It seems that they notice a weak position to exploit with a charge, but the player can reinforce it quickly and disengaging is not something I've seen the AI do ever.

Not sure yet:
- Naval combat: I have to admit I have not tried it even once. I autoresolve it always. Perhaps I try it later when I have more time, now I prefer to use it on the land battles.
- Diplomacy and the realm divide. I suspect I will grow to like the divide, as it gives the game some stages when you need to rush and others where you need to stop and gather strength. I can see why some don't like it, but I think might be a good thing to not be able to grow too powerful before the AI turns on you en masse.

[Daveybaby]

As an aside, can't you turn off auto-updating? I seem to recall a steam option somewhere to do that. I've not had a problem with it, but I suppose I tend to not shut the game down that much.

Yeah, but it's very complicated to do. You have to right click on the game and untick the 'always keep this game up to date' option.
AAAAARGGGHH!!!! DAMN YOU STEEEAAAAMM!!!!



It amazes me that people can complain about this stuff like it's ruining their entire life, yet they havent even bothered to check if it can be turned off.

[Zarky]

Fair enough. I have not done any rigorous scientific studies, but I recall the port getting a 3.5 conversion bonus, and some have also lamented about having to use 3 monks or something to combat it. I cannot remember what a good Buddhist temple gives. I'll have to try it out.

If you own a holy site, which are hard to come by starting as Kyushu-clan (closest in Mori starting province) and build Pilgrim hostel, that gives you 3 star monks available to recruit from that province. That +being a Buddhist clan +beginning level temple combined give 4 to conversion.

It's true that you need 3 monks to fight the conversion, if you have 3 1-star monks.