There will simply never be peace

[Fragony]

Dedicated to the jewish family who got murdered. How sick must you be to stab a baby to death, how primitive can your bloodlust be, why treat people who think it's the greatest thing ever as fellow human beings. They aren't. People who have always condemned both sides but never do are naturally united in silence or doing the butbutbut other way around they would be howling tearing hairs and clawing eyeballs. The gutmensch, it's sickening. Dear terrorists and your leftist cheerleaders, just so you know, I hate you till the very molecular structure of your bones and I will kill you if I can get away with it.

Why is this man still in the UK http://ow.ly/i/96Jm

[Don Corleone]

I think everyone knows where I'm going to line up on Israel/Palestine issues. But a couple of things here...

-The guy in the photo you're talking about is holding up a newspaper about 9 Israelis killed in a mortar attack, not the Fogel family, which I believe is what your thread is intended to discuss (stabbed baby).

-The Palestinian Authority have not only condemned the attack, Abbas supposedly told the perps to turn themselves in to the IDF, because if his guys get their hands on them, a slow painful death awaits.

-In a move I'm not certain even the settlers wanted, Netanyahu announced that his response to the attack would be to formally annex Itamar.... I'm not certain the Israelis want to connect those dots quite so concretely, as to my way of thinking, they're making the very case the Palestinians have been making for most of my life... that the settlements are meant as an offensive gesture to deprive the Palestinians of land.

I think this is a horrible, sickening tragedy. My heart weeps for the victims and their families, and surprisingly, I find myself wondering if the crime really is sectarian violence (or could it have been a robbery gone bad?)

[Fragony]

Pic was mailed my bad, still puzzled why he's still in England though, he belongs in sandland where he can herd his wives and mutually respect his goats. What the hell is he doing there in a civilisation. And there is plenty euphoria over this sickening murder. As Golda Meir said, if they would love their children more than they hate ours there will be peace. So there will never be peace.

[Slyspy]

I hate you till the very molecular structure of your bones and I will kill you if I can get away with it.

Yes, thats what we need more of!

[Andres]

As Golda Meir said, if they would love their children more than they hate ours there will be peace. So there will never be peace.

The fact that you think that all "lefties" and all "muslims" would be capable of defending the despicable act of stabbing a baby to death, shows how deep your hate goes. Maybe you should take a good look in the mirror before talking about hate. Are muslims and lefties still human in your eyes or did you completely dehumanise them already.

Regardless of what you think about other people, your attitude won't lead to a peaceful solution.

[Fragony]

The fact that you think that all "lefties" and all "muslims" would be capable of defending the despicable act of stabbing a baby to death, shows how deep your hate goes. Maybe you should take a good look in the mirror before talking about hate. Are muslims and lefties still human in your eyes or did you completely dehumanise them already.

Regardless of what you think about other people, your attitude won't lead to a peaceful solution.

Did I say muslims? Thought I said terrorists. Did I say lefties? Thought I said leftist cheerleaders. Not EVERY leftie will go all yesbutbutbut on you it are just a few billions that ruin it for AdrianII

And I'm not interested in a peaceful solution, that wall is as good as it gets

[Andres]

Did I say muslims? Thought I said terrorists. Did I say lefties? Thought I said leftist cheerleaders. Not EVERY leftie will go all yesbutbutbut on you it are just a few billions that ruin it for AdrianII

And I'm not interested in a peaceful solution, that wall is as good as it gets

At least you're honest

But that's about the only positive thing there is to say about that statement.

I don't think putting all the muslims, except Mouzaphaerre and LEN, and all lefties, except Adrian II, on one spot and building a wall around it (or nuking them) is a good solution. Which probably means I should be brought to said spot as well. Maybe building a wall around me or nuking me might be positive for humankind in the long run, who knows?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What if it was actually another Jew?

Thus far it seems no one has considered this, and as a result some Palastinian will be shot in automatic retaliation, etc.,, etc.

[Andres]

What if it was actually another Jew?

Only a terrorist or a lefty would bring up such a suggestion

Thus far it seems no one has considered this, and as a result some Palastinian will be shot in automatic retaliation, etc.,, etc.

So what? They all have to die if we want peace anyway, might as well kill some for a fake reason.

There should be walls built around gutmenschen like you.

[Fragony]

At least you're honest

But that's about the only positive thing there is to say about that statement.

I don't think putting all the muslims, except Mouzaphaerre and LEN, and all lefties, except Adrian II, on one spot and building a wall around it (or nuking them) is a good solution. Which probably means I should be brought to said spot as well. Maybe building a wall around me or nuking me might be positive for humankind in the long run, who knows?

Do you have a name for the alternative reality in which I say 'all muslims'? I got nothing against them, but I don't absolutely adore them all either just because they are muslims. Guess that qualifies as not 100% OK in leftielaland, that same standard for all no matter what color or religion, soooooo evil me

[Don Corleone]

What if it was actually another Jew?

Thus far it seems no one has considered this, and as a result some Palastinian will be shot in automatic retaliation, etc.,, etc.

Even if it was the Palestinians... they're not all idealogues. They could have been robbing the house and woke people up... somebody in the house might have owed them money....

There's plenty of heinous acts that occur between people of the same ideological/ethnic group. Just read about this...... warning, not for the squeamish or sympathetic.

[gaelic cowboy]

The OP title says there will "Never be Peace" NEVER is a long time as they say.

People would have said any conflict since the time we could stand on two legs and club each other to death.

I have no doubt the whole thing will subside one day, both sides will just have to talk to each other regardless of who the people are they are talking to.

[Hax]

Thank you, Don and Phillipvs for a well-thought and intelligent response.

[Rhyfelwyr]

What if it was actually another Jew?

Anti-semite.

Anyway, I think it is more likely that this was carried out by one of the fringe groups that in no way represents the Palestinian people, and yet it would appear that it is the ordinary Palestinian that will feel the effects with another settlement being annexed. I guess this is how you breed extremism...

Although taking a broad historical view, in all honesty I believe Israel would be justified in annexing the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip right now.

[Hax]

Although taking a broad historical view, in all honesty I believe Israel would be justified in annexing the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip right now.

How broad?

[Rhyfelwyr]

How broad?

Genesis.

No, I'm kidding. But certainly going back to around 1948 etc. The West looks at things all wrong... the Zionists are not evil colonists kicking out the 'native' Palestians. There are in fact very few native Palestinians and not all were Muslim or Arab... what people think of as 'native Palestinians' today are in fact mostly settlers from the neighbouring Arab states that came after many of the Zionists.

The only reason Israel doesn't control the West Bank/Gaza Strip is because they were stolen by Arab powers.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Dedicated to the jewish family who got murdered. How sick must you be to stab a baby to death, how primitive can your bloodlust be, why treat people who think it's the greatest thing ever as fellow human beings. They aren't. People who have always condemned both sides but never do are naturally united in silence or doing the butbutbut other way around they would be howling tearing hairs and clawing eyeballs. The gutmensch, it's sickening. Dear terrorists and your leftist cheerleaders, just so you know, I hate you till the very molecular structure of your bones and I will kill you if I can get away with it.

With the exception of the small children who were killed, one's opinion of the murders might depend a good deal on one's opinion of the settlers.

If they are religious fanatics who invaded from another continent to drive off other peoples from their ancestral homes based on some ancient texts.....then, well....one can consider it an act of self-defense. If the settlers are entitled to this land, then this is an act of terrorism.

Or possibly it's just a robbery by one of those Thai migrant workers the Israelis employ to subdue the Palestinians.

Why is this man still in the UK http://ow.ly/i/96Jm

Conveniently, the Anglosaxons - ever the practical race - give a hint to the exact location of the York in question by placing 'New' before it when referring to the one west of the UK.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Genesis.

No, I'm kidding. But certainly going back to around 1948 etc. The West looks at things all wrong... the Zionists are evil colonists kicking out the 'native' Palestians. There are in fact very few native Palestinians and not all were Muslim or Arab... what people think of as 'native Palestinians' today are in fact mostly settlers from the neighbouring Arab states that came after many of the Zionists.

The only reason Israel doesn't control the West Bank/Gaza Strip is because they were stolen by Arab powers.

That's a slightly less simplistic view. Let's add in one more detail: what people think of as Israeli's these days are not the settlers from 1948 there are very few of those left. What people think of as Israeli's these days are mainly the descendants of immigrants from the former USSR, Europe and USA which entered the country for very different reasons and with very different motives. In actual fact some Israeli are more Israeli than others and enjoy special privileges over other Israeli (and no I am not talking about the Arabs this is purely among the Jewish population)...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Thank you, Don and Phillipvs for a well-thought and intelligent response.

I have my moments.

These settlements are guarded, to stop just this sort of thing, yes? So, logically, it would be much easier for someone inside the settlement to comitt the crime.

That doesn't mean it was just a normal act of violence, vs an Ethnic/political one, but it seems not to have been considered.

RE: Israel/Palastine - has anyone ever considered who all those Christian Arabs (now mostly gone) were descended from?

My money is on the local Jewish population.

[Fragony]

How broad?

The Arab nations went to war and lost, not that odd to annex territories. Palestina doesn't exist, neither do Palestinians, they are extinct for centuries, It's just an invention of the PLO

[rory_20_uk]

The Arab nations went to war and lost, not that odd to annex territories. Palestina doesn't exist, neither do Palestinians, they are extinct for centuries, It's just an invention of the PLO

So was Israel.

[Hax]

A lot of the migrants towards Gaza were not native Palestinians. Arafat himself was Egyptian. However, there is a sizeable amount of people that still hold the deeds of their ancestors who lived in the Israel/Palestine area during the later Ottoman Empire. Several families still have the keys to their homes. It's just really difficult to find out who are "real" Palestinians and who are migrants from other Arab countries.

[Fragony]

So was Israel.

That is also kinda true of course, but it's really tiny. Tiny piece of land that has to be armed to the teeth.

[Rhyfelwyr]

A lot of the migrants towards Gaza were not native Palestinians. Arafat himself was Egyptian. However, there is a sizeable amount of people that still hold the deeds of their ancestors who lived in the Israel/Palestine area during the later Ottoman Empire. Several families still have the keys to their homes. It's just really difficult to find out who are "real" Palestinians and who are migrants from other Arab countries.

True, but my point wasn't that the Israeli's had a better claim, it was simply to note that the 'Palestinians' don't really have any more of claim to being the natives of the land. Most people here don't understand that.

[Hax]

So can we accept that neither of them have the same claim to the land?

[Ironside]

True, but my point wasn't that the Israeli's had a better claim, it was simply to note that the 'Palestinians' don't really have any more of claim to being the natives of the land. Most people here don't understand that.

It's not as much the original claim of land that the problem, the crux with annexation is that the people you annex are now supposed to be treated as citizens... And that's never going to happen as long as there exist a lot of Palestinians on those lands.

Thus current situation. 2 states, but what borders?

[Samurai Waki]

There are some places where cultures are historically nurtured, and other places where cultures have converged (most times violently). The Levant, like Central Asia, has always been a hotbed... I see no reason why it should change now if nothing in our way of thinking has really changed. I really don't know what to think on the Palestinian-Israeli issue, I don't live there, and I don't know what it's like. What I would like to see happen and what they would like to see happen are two very different things. Perhaps peace is not attainable for them.

I really, really hope that I am wrong...