Poll: Which game do you prefer?

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Thread: Shogun vs Shogun 2

  1. #31
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    All of this S2TW playing made me want to play STW again, so I gratefully took my original CDs and slotted them inside the drive. Hopefully tonight I shall have epic battles of Oda Ashigaru against Mori Warrior Monks.

    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

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    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    i find the graphics in shogun 2 are better than in shogun 1

  3. #33
    Senior Member Senior Member Graphic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    Shogun 2.

    I loved Shogun. I'm quite nostalgic about it and it was a revolution in its time. But now its simply too old. Very little depth. I do miss the FMV diplomacy, though.

  4. #34
    Member Member Mumu Champion Prodigal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    2 for me, STW opened my eye's to what strategy games should be like, & in so doing pretty much ruined 95% of the stuff I was playing at the time. Course that was then, & this is now.

    Due to wanting to simply play STW2 I'd ignored graphic problems like lack of roads, rivers and borders on the campaign map, sorted that last weekend & came very close to licking my monitor it looks so freaking delicious. Pretty much everything I've not liked in the more recent TW's seems to be either fixed, or just out right improved.

    Now if they would only made an RTW2....

  5. #35

    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    Shogun 2 all the way. When I first play shogun 10 years back. I was really really excited. It was really a break thru for tactical real time battles and you can execute realistic formation we read in historical books. We can do that now too in Shogun better then we can do it back in RTW and MTW2.

    Problem with Shogun though...everytime I won and routed the enemy, they would murdered massacred my army just by fleeing thru them.... is that!
    Last edited by econ21; 05-05-2011 at 11:30. Reason: Floral arrangement for acronym

  6. #36
    Member Member Yesugey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    Shogun 2 is an excellent game, covers every aspects of all the other TW games combines, plus lots of magnificent features. The tech tree, diplomacy, graphics.. It's a masterpiece, %99 of what would you expect from a TW game.

    But I pick Shogun I, because it has the awesome long-term battle scenes, which the games after RTW has not. Units usually either run away or lose after few seconds of melee, and flanking doesn't matter at all. I truly miss the long battles from old STW which you can't know who is going to win until the last minute, or you win by rallying your routing troops.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    I like both for being good games. The Risk style campaign map holds up very well in Shogun 1 giving decisive battles. The deceptive simplicity of the campaign compared to later titles in the series still gives a good game. Those decisive battles are enjoyable. Shogun 2 is a worthy sequel.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    But I pick Shogun I, because it has the awesome long-term battle scenes, which the games after RTW has not. Units usually either run away or lose after few seconds of melee, and flanking doesn't matter at all. I truly miss the long battles from old STW which you can't know who is going to win until the last minute, or you win by rallying your routing troops.
    This! Epic battles that could sometimes last 1 1/2 to 2 hours realtime...maneuver, tactics, one side winning---now losing...weather that actually affected tactics on the battlefield...a chess match. And yes, I love playing chess, so graphics not so important if game play is superior.

    S2 has its improvements over S1, for sure, but I've never gotten quite as excited playing S2. So my vote for the One-That-Started-It-All....
    High Plains Drifter

  9. #39
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    This! Epic battles that could sometimes last 1 1/2 to 2 hours realtime...maneuver, tactics, one side winning---now losing...weather that actually affected tactics on the battlefield...
    Why did battles last so long and how could the fortunes change so much? (I guess they can change in the newer titles in the series with some devious cavalry tactics, but that's about it). How did weather affect the battle? (in rtw, rain definitely makes ranged units & siege gear less effective, extreme weather makes units tire faster, but that's about it; some people claim night battles also reduce effectiveness of ranged units, but I did not notice it).

  10. #40
    Infinite Jest Member easytarget's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    Routine false dilemma in my opinion, that said, I did want to drop in nonetheless and give a big round of applause to Yesugey for his 4 year old necro, impressive.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    Why did battles last so long and how could the fortunes change so much?
    Not every battle was like that...just the epic ones. Kill rates were much, much lower...unlike RTW where battles could often be over in 10-15 minutes. Reinforcements did not arrive on the battlefield all at once. On normal unit size, you got a max of 960 men...more if an ally participated. When facing down 4 or 5000, you would see 4-6 waves and each wave would take time to assemble (if you were defending) or jump immediately into battle (if you were the attacker).

    Fortunes could change depending on when a particular Daimyo arrived on the battlefield (Daimyo's were not necessarily in the first wave). An elite general like Kenshin or Shingen could tip the scales dramatically if the outcome was in doubt. The onset of bad weather in the middle of the battle could change things for better or worse. Thunder storms in Shogun were THUNDER STORMS, not the drizzly mist you got in RTW. If you can play the game on your rig, fire up the historical Battle of Okehazama. Now that's a thunderstorm. The arrival of fog could change fortunes depending on whether you were attacker or defender.

    As defender, you could afford to get "trappy" because the AI played like it didn't know where your troops were (even though it has to in reality) and sent mounted troops to locate you... often separating its forces. Likewise, as the attacker, you had to do the same kind of search. Dense fog was the absolute best weather to assault a bridge. You could lure the AI into moving too close to the bridge, thereby bringing its troops into range of your arrows or guns. You could bum-rush Ashi across and slip your better troops in behind if the AI was too far away to see you right away.

    in rtw, rain definitely makes ranged units & siege gear less effective, extreme weather makes units tire faster
    All I can say is play one in bad weather, then the other. There is a noticeable difference, and not just the graphics.

    I did want to drop in nonetheless and give a big round of applause to Yesugey for his 4 year old necro, impressive.
    Other than the Backroom, the org isn't exactly a hot bed of discussion these days, so....

    Routine false dilemma in my opinion
    Meaning.....
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 12-15-2015 at 11:15.
    High Plains Drifter

  12. #42
    Member Member Yesugey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Not every battle was like that...just the epic ones. Kill rates were much, much lower...unlike RTW where battles could often be over in 10-15 minutes. Reinforcements did not arrive on the battlefield all at once. On normal unit size, you got a max of 960 men...more if an ally participated. When facing down 4 or 5000, you would see 4-6 waves and each wave would take time to assemble (if you were defending) or jump immediately into battle (if you were the attacker).
    Even without 4000-5000 troop numbers and reinforcements, it was still quite hard to understand who is going to win the melee. Your troops wavers.. Then stops.. Then again.. Your front collapses at some of the flanks.. And sometimes you actually win a battle by rallying your troops. That almost never happens in games later tham RTW.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    The onset of bad weather in the middle of the battle could change things for better or worse. Thunder storms in Shogun were THUNDER STORMS, not the drizzly mist you got in RTW. If you can play the game on your rig, fire up the historical Battle of Okehazama. Now that's a thunderstorm. The arrival of fog could change fortunes depending on whether you were attacker or defender.
    Ah, I also noticed the Thunder Storms last time I played! You cant see what's ahead of you from the mist, the rain is like hell.. And the sound of the thunder... Shogun TW has actually a dark soul as a game, not colorful like other TW games. Insanely bloody Ninja movies are also an evidence.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    Gah!

    Vanya has pondered this question for many moons. But alas, the smell of gunpowder has distracted Him of late. Vanya shall endeavor to contemplate the deeper questions buried under the veneer of this intrinsic question while meditating on the mountaintop after His mornin' raids.

    Gah!
    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

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  14. #44
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    Ah, Vanya, welcome back. Please contemplate further and let us know of your findings.

    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

    Proud

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    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country.

  15. #45
    Member Member Cash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    I purchased Shogun 2 when it first came out. My favorite of all the TW games. I have played the games since the first Shogun game.

  16. #46
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun vs Shogun 2

    Go for it, Cash. I played almost 300 hours of S2TW, I think I quite like it.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

    Proud

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    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country.

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