Shogun vs Shogun 2

[edyzmedieval]

Question is simple, which one do you prefer?

My answer - Shogun Total War. Why? Immersion. Atmosphere. Strategy map - playing chess on the map feels more like a strategy game based on rock paper scissors rather than 3D. AI as well, the computer effectively manages the terrain.

2D battles. This might seem strange but the whole backwardness of the game engine manages to recreate some of the authenticity and art of the Sengoku Jidai era.

EDIT.

I just want to mention that I'm enjoying S2TW greatly. I'm having a serious blast even on low settings and that I'm really appreciating the work done by CA. Epic game, but I still prefer STW.

[Liberator]

Uah accidently clicked on Shogun..

But I definitely prefer Shogun 2;
Some years ago, I actually wanted to start playing Shogun again. But in the first battle, it felt like I could count the pixel.

[Naughtius Maximus]

I haven't played the campaign yet, just wading thru the encyclopedia and looking at the tutorials.

From what I see, though, is that the diplomatic and economic models are light years away from Shogun.

[Zarky]

For me it's Shogun 2 because of the 3D map, not because it's eye-candy, but because it gives you the option to choose your own battles more than Shogun ever could.
Also trade & diplomacy, I'm big fan of both as long as they work properly.

[xploring]

Probably,
for campaign: Shogun 2
battle: Shogun.

[crpcarrot]

too early to be deninite but at the moment i love them both. STW2 is definitely as hard as STW.

[Ed TW]

I couldn't agree with you more. Although the game is good the 3D map is rather clumsy to navigate.

[Krasturak]

Krast not vote: no "Gah!" option in poll.

Still, it is an interesting question: which version is better?

Krast must find out.

[edyzmedieval]

Krast not vote: no "Gah!" option in poll.

Still, it is an interesting question: which version is better?

Krast must find out.

Welcome back to the Org Krasturak.

Certainly worth the money, please enjoy.

[econ21]

I am loving STW2 so far, but still on my first proper campaign so it is early days. (I also loved my first Julii campaign in RTW).

STW was a very innovative and characterful game, but I voted STW2 as it seems to keep most of the good things of the first game and add-in more features.


STW2 pros

The campaign map. As someone who likes historical wargames and is bored to death by chess, the 3D map is so much more to my taste than the Risk style one. The main problem with the 3D map in some earlier TW games was that the AI did not seem to cope with the extra freedom, but it's doing ok in STW2 so far. My vague memory of STW was that the strategic AI cheated like crazy (reacting to your moves rather than being genuinely simultaneous), which was annoying. And I loathed the bridge province bottlenecks.

Agents and general's skill trees are nice improvements in STW2 - the first time agents in TW have felt so useful and fun. The research tree also gives meaningful and interesting choices.

I'm also enjoying the naval battles (I liked them in ETW too).

Diplomacy seems decent. I feel I have more freedom over who to fight and where to fight than in STW.

Realm divide is a wonderful way of keeping the mid to late game challenging. Although to be honest, I found it challenging in STW too - but this was usually getting ground down by the Hojo horde.


STW2 cons

Too many sieges. I would rather field battles were the norm. It's like RTW in this respect and probably a result of the high number of provinces relative to the map size. It may well be realistic (it would be for Medieval Europe), but I just enjoy field battles more. And the AI is much better at field battles than sieges.

Combat is too fast - both move speed and kill rates. Again, like RTW in this respect. M2TW felt slower, at least the kill rates. The pacing of RTW and MTW battles was perfect, imo - I am not sure why it had to be speeded up.

[Azi Tohak]

The original was terrific, but this is a very worthy descendant that takes full (maybe too full!) advantage of new computer power. I prefer S2.

[Leptomeninges]

STW2 pros[/i]

The campaign map. As someone who likes historical wargames and is bored to death by chess, the 3D map is so much more to my taste than the Risk style one. The main problem with the 3D map in some earlier TW games was that the AI did not seem to cope with the extra freedom, but it's doing ok in STW2 so far. My vague memory of STW was that the strategic AI cheated like crazy (reacting to your moves rather than being genuinely simultaneous), which was annoying. And I loathed the bridge province bottlenecks.

The campaign AI is good, but it has some holes. I'm not talking about anything silly like units getting stuck (looking at you CivV). But it's not hard to bait the AI into making fairly bad decisions on the campaign map. Outside of defending archers focusing on a single wall, I haven't noticed many holes in the skirmish AI. Which is odd because I'd personally think the skirmish AI would be more challenging. But there are definitely some holes in the campaign AI that I'm exploiting in my Uesugi VH/VH game.

[econ21]

The campaign AI is good, but it has some holes.

I won't inquire, because if I know them, I guess I will exploit them.

I have noticed it seems strangely keen on siege assaults when the odds are almost even - much better to starve you out, I would reckon. (Although I was impressed in my latest campaign when I plonked a full stack on a frontline city and the AI started to starve it out with three adjacent, mutually supporting stacks. Good job my general is a night fighter.)