Too Slow ?

[crpcarrot]

If a game makes you think at work or in bed, then it's darn good.

At last.

So back to my sluggishness. >:|

the only games that invaded my dreams

STW
MTW
Football Manager
STW2

[LeftEyeNine]

So my 4th attempt had to end because it was too late to put an end to Shoni's or Sagara's existence on Kyushu.

I tried something new in my 5th go:

I piled up an army, skipped despite Osumo province being set as a quest target and went right to the heart of the Ito clan, Hyuga province. I wanted to make sure that I'm not stuck with progress. Osumo province was grabbed with ease. By that time the island was already occupied by the Otomo. They had severely weakened Shoni at the northern part of the island, so giving a push to recently-captured-by-Shoni Higo was no problem.

I took some time to replenish and go economical while all during these warfare years, I had gone Chi way of martial arts so that I could balance out economy/happiness/growth a bit, which yielded fine results.

As my trade partners fell one after another and since making an alliance with Otomo to feel safe was not received favorably by its opponents such as Matsuda and Chosokabe, my income was severed to a point of bankruptcy, but some fiddling with clans and another thrust towards the northern town of Tsukushi turned out to be a success.

It's 1555 again, 5 provinces in hand.

One clan starting with "O" with "feeble" power to the east coast, last hold of the Otomo in the northeastern town, also the last existence of Amako in the northwestern part.

Practice makes better, if not perfect. Now it's time to dominate whole Kyushu while I'm considered at war with Matsuda, who are "strong" owning 6 provinces and not far from "here.

I never thought this island would be such a mess of clans but it actually worked in my favor.

[Rothe]

I did not get to the divide yet, so I'd like to know how many provinces you can take before it triggers?

I expect that I'd want to capture almost that amount and then begin optimizing for the divide and anticipating attacks.

For me, the hard mode was ok for the battles, but for the campaign it felt a bit too limited as the economy only really allowed ashigaru units to keep the upkeep high enough.

I guess one part of the game is to try and pick out good provinces to conquer before the divide so they still will produce enough income and also have defensible bottlenecks in the map to allow defending with small number of stacks.

I also guess that it is a good idea to save up koku for the divide, so that you can run with a small income and still do some critical repairs/builds/recruits.

[Zarky]

I did not get to the divide yet, so I'd like to know how many provinces you can take before it triggers?

There is no exact number. I'm not sure if campaign difficulty or estimated clan difficulty affect this, but great victories and high daimyo honor also increase clan reputation.
Best you can do is not get great victories after "Shoguns Ire" message and capture couple provinces.

[LeftEyeNine]

1557 Summer and I own all of Kyushu. I've slowed down the conquests to improve the homeland for now.

Having met Takeda clan, I have a question for you:

Those guys own almost most of Central Japan with 11 provinces and I have brought a daughter of the daimyo into the family through marriage, hence building a "Very Friendly" relationship.

The Takeda are currently in war with Ashikaga Shogunate and they are "high"ly likely to accept a Military Alliance.

Does making a military alliance with Takeda at this point automatically make me waging war against the Shogunate ?

[Gregoshi]

Who is the bigger threat? The Takeda or the Shogunate? What is the advantage of an alliance with the Takeda at this point in the game? Isn't trade with them enough? Who else is dominant (a threat) and how close are they to you? If you abandon the Takeda, you at least got a wife from them to continue your line.

[Monk]

Does making a military alliance with Takeda at this point automatically make me waging war against the Shogunate ?

No i don't believe so. The Takeda would need to petition you to join in on the war. It's a dilpomatic option, look for it next time you're dealing with an ally/vassal you've setablished post war declaration.

Who is the bigger threat? The Takeda or the Shogunate? What is the advantage of an alliance with the Takeda at this point in the game? Isn't trade with them enough? Who else is dominant (a threat) and how close are they to you? If you abandon the Takeda, you at least got a wife from them to continue your line.

Proximity is the major thing i'd worry about in this instance. The Takeda sound like the emerging powerhouse in this game - so much so that they're already warring for Kyoto. If they have that sort of power would you really want to defy them? If you're sitting pretty on Kyushu far from the epicenter.. maybe so! Though i'm not sure what happens if another clan takes the capital. Do they become shogun and you lose?

[LeftEyeNine]

Who is the bigger threat? The Takeda or the Shogunate? What is the advantage of an alliance with the Takeda at this point in the game? Isn't trade with them enough? Who else is dominant (a threat) and how close are they to you? If you abandon the Takeda, you at least got a wife from them to continue your line.

Shogunate, after my 8th province capture, took me "prominent" and I was told that I should expect a call to arms against me by them in the future.

But this Takeda who are already in war with the Shogunate makes me wonder:

I made Matsuda, who are neighbors to me from Kyushu's connection to the main island, enemies for quite some time now despite the fact that only 1 naval battle took place between us so far. Actually they pose more of a threat to me right now with their 4 province and other 2 being under their threat and I wondered if I could use Takeda alliance to dodge Realm Divide and giving more to Matsuda to think about while their hands are already full with Ouchi and another faction right now.

Actually, if I'm not automatically against the Shogun itself once I'm in the pact, I'm seeing allying with Takeda beneficial for the moment, so as to spread to the mainland.

What do you think provided a clearer situation of things now ?

[Gregoshi]

Apart from meta-gaming the Realm Divide, it seems like the Takeda alliance would be beneficial to you. What are the prospects of taking Shikoku? Or is Honshu the better option? The Honshu provinces near Kyushu are fairly poor (I know, I own them in my campaign).

[andrewt]

I'd say ally with the Takeda. If you're allied for a long time, they stay with you through realm divide. The Shogunate is really harmless aside from that event.

[LeftEyeNine]

I thought of that today, too, Greg-sama. But Chosokabe on that island are a good trade partner of mine and they are not so feeble to overwhelm.

Also, I just can not peace out with Matsuda. Should I open a war front at Shikoku, I'll always be on my toes about Buzen because of the threat from the Matsuda.

You're absolutely right about the expansion given equal terms but Matsuda's vile existence is bothering me much right now.

[Gregoshi]

Well, that settles it then. The Matsuda...must...die! Didn't seem like there was much of a decision in this. I think you let the Realm Divide intimidate you into indecision. The course is clear - go for it! May Honour and Victory follow your armies.

[antisocialmunky]

Take Osumo first turn by ambushing the reinforcement army on the eastern edge of the map. Then just push as hard and fast as you can after securing the marriage alliance with the Sagara.

Its beneficial to have vassals for trade in my experience iwth Legendary Chokosabe(Legendary Shimazu is hard).

[LeftEyeNine]

@antisocialmunky

Uh, actually, Osumo was my 3rd conquest also Sagara have made it to our history classes in Shimazu schools already. I own Kyushu as a whole to be precise.

@Greg

I just proceeded as I thought but with very unexpected moves.

I infiltrated the Matsuda lands with a metsuke and a ninja so as to approximate what kind of an army would I encounter after my thrust. I had explored 3 of their 4 provinces where the journey had a rest at Bingo province. I right-clicked the town for fun and saw that for a mere price of 1500, the province could be bribed for %50-75, I can't remember correctly. I clicked "yes" out of boredom and tata! I cut Matsuda lands in half which was neighbors to fithy Amako to the north as a bonus.

"What the daisies have I done over there ? " was the question as I was trying to make up my mind. The closest province I could support that absolutely unintended invasion was Buzen where the royal army itself was piling up for a war. But the problem was you had to march through Nagato (rebels), Suo (Matsuda) and Aki (later-to-be-Amako Matsuda). I had an ungarrisoned province in hand, I spammed some Ashigaru but a Matsuda recovery in bingo was inevitable and so it would happen had my "resourceful" metsuke not intervened again. I bribed the Matsuda army sent next turn for around 2500 koku generating a bunch of troops for the garrisoning of my forthcoming conquests.

Royal army pushed towards Suo, capturing it without any real casualties hence bringing Matsuda to the point of being a vassal because Aki, as I messed all over that place was overtaken by Amako.

I don't know what to say but the very same metsuke knocked Aki doors, to be honest for the first two times in vain, three times, eventually bribing them into being Shimuzan as well.

Next step was capturing Nagato and the neighboring province, the last hold of Amako and all of a sudden by 1560, I had 13 provinces which triggered Shogunate to be terribly aware of my expansion.

And I call it a day.

[Gregoshi]

LEN, you are giving a new meaning to the name "Golden Horde" (cha-ching!).

[Reapz]

"Definitely too slow. You should be in a good position to get a leg up on the trade nodes; get as much money together as you can and start banging heads."

Trade nodes are for noobies. Real Generals just get straight into the fight and start grinding.

[LeftEyeNine]

LEN, you are giving a new meaning to the name "Golden Horde" (cha-ching!).

"Definitely too slow. You should be in a good position to get a leg up on the trade nodes; get as much money together as you can and start banging heads."

Trade nodes are for noobies. Real Generals just get straight into the fight and start grinding.

I own 4 out of 5 trade nodes right now. The last one providing warhorses is too far and completely irrelevant to my policies right now.