Where to build markets - only in fertile lands?

[Furunculus]

In my first campaign i built lots of markets, why not, the tree generates lots of wealth.

However the -2 food penalty caused many provinces to starve so i had to destroy my very expensive investments.

This did not make me happy.

So I found this map at TWcentre:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...4&d=1300847863

Playing as the Shimazu, with the intention of taking Kyushu, does it only make sense to build markets in Higo, Hizen and Tsukushi, as they are the only provinces fertile enough to feed their population [and] have a fully upgraded market complex?

p.s. Does it not seem odd that Hyuga, which specialises in farming, is also a barren province?

Cheers

[Dead Guy]

AFAIK, the fertility doesn't affect the amount of food the province produces, only the income from farming. The 4 levels of farming always give you 1-4 units of food. You'll just have to leave some castle towns as forts and only build an upgraded market there, no troop production. Specialize the regions a bit, like in civ.

To clarify, it's when the global food goes below 0 that people become unruly.

[Furunculus]

AFAIK, the fertility doesn't affect the amount of food the province produces, only the income from farming. The 4 levels of farming always give you 1-4 units of food. You'll just have to leave some castle towns as forts and only build an upgraded market there, no troop production. Specialize the regions a bit, like in civ.

To clarify, it's when the global food goes below 0 that people become unruly.

i don't like it, i want to max out a tree if i go to the trouble of investing in it. :(

so why do some provinces complain about lack of food and not others, considering both have the first stone castle and the -2 market upgrade?

"global", as in for my clan........?

cheers

[al Roumi]

The easiest first:

"global", as in for my clan........?

yes.

so why do some provinces complain about lack of food and not others, considering both have the first stone castle and the -2 market upgrade?

Did you check the unrest before your food supply went throught he floor? It's possible food shortages add global/faction wide unhappyness factor. So your most unruly provinces are the most likely to complain/revolt under food shortages.

i don't like it, i want to max out a tree if i go to the trouble of investing in it. :(

Embrace it! Tough decisions are what make the game challenging and interesting. You can squeeze more repeat campaigns out of different approaches too :)

[al Roumi]

p.s. Does it not seem odd that Hyuga, which specialises in farming, is also a barren province?

From your link, a province with farming specialisation means you can build an extra level of irrigation on its farms, presumably creating +5 food in that province.

I think Dead guy is right that food is based on the development level of your farms (i.e. 1 to 4), rather than the fertility of the soil -which governs the financial output of the farms.

You do at some point have to weigh up where your food will be distributed and how -essentially: castles or markets?

I don't think that a focus on self sustaining provinces is going to be the most productive/performing. Tuning a system of recruitment/trader and feeder provinces is surely the way to go. Higher level castles bring greater benefits as recruitment centres but also stronger defensive positions (if only mainly by spawning dedicated defensive units when besieged). As for markets/rice traders/merchants guilds they add a bonus to a region's trade, so its clear they should be built in your trading centres.

I guess the next logical (or meticulous/analy retentive) thing is to plan your conquests and developement around how much food you will have available from your target provinces. This way you can share out castle and market development with a little coordinated forethought, a bit like the old trick from civ4 of planning city placement around the "fat cross" and what resources/features will be included.

[Dead Guy]

That's precisely how I've understood things work.

Furunculus: Global as in your clan yeah. As for which region gets hit, I'm not sure. For me it was always one where the local food supply was negative. That's ok as long as the global is above 0, but not when the global is negative.

I basically have two region modes.

1. Farm + Market only. Relatively low investment - High economic return.

2. Castle, Dojos and encampment/smith/lodge/proving grounds only. This is best on borders obviously, since it not only gives you excellent recruitment capability, but also insane levels of replenishment, in addition to the free garrison and defenses in the event of a siege.

I deviate from this standard in the province I use as my ninja-farm, i.e. a region with ninja clans. And this might not be feasable early in the campaign when you have three regions obviously.

Gah! Ninja'd! How apropos :p

[Furunculus]

many thanks.

[LeftEyeNine]

Speaking of which, is it possible to set the taxation differing from one povince to another or do we have only a global slider for that ?

[Lemur]

Taxation is global, but I note there is an option for "auto-manage taxes." Don't know if that triggers individual rates for provinces or not. And of course you can always turn off taxation for individual provinces.

[Furunculus]

Furunculus: Global as in your clan yeah. As for which region gets hit, I'm not sure. For me it was always one where the local food supply was negative. That's ok as long as the global is above 0, but not when the global is negative.

is there a tool tip that shows you what your net food value is for your clan territories, so you have an idea of whether you can afford to build a market in a particular territory?

[Dead Guy]

The global food is given in the bottom right of the GUI I think. There's a little bag of rice with a number beneath it, IIRC.

You can find the local food supply in the menu you get when double-clicking a castle town, I think it's in the top right part...

[Furunculus]

many thanks.

[Nelson]

The cost of diverting Bushido or Chi research is tough to quantify. It is certain though that getting near the bottom of either tree takes a lot of time that could have yielded advantages sooner with the other discipline.

[MCM]

I think there are a lot of misconceptions in this thread, resulting from the really counter-intuitive (and I'd say downright stupid) way CA set up the economy in this game. You should basically never, ever build Rice Exchanges or any of the other Market upgrades. Fortress upgrades should be pretty rare as well, but as necessary for training spots/chokehold provinces. Whenever you capture a province that won't be one of those, you should tear down the Sword School or Yari Drill Yard or whatever the AI put there and just build a Market. Since you can't downgrade fortresses, add in Sake Dens or Buddhist Temples as necessary.

[Shabbaman]

p.s. Does it not seem odd that Hyuga, which specialises in farming, is also a barren province?

You'd have to be a specialised farmer to produce crops on barren land ;)

[Furunculus]

cheers both. :)