River/bridge maps?

[Dead Guy]

Another observation here, not sure if it has any bearing on the actual mechanic for how/when a bridge map is generated.

I placed my army in the middle of the bridge on the map, got a regular field battle.

When I placed my army about 1/3 of the way over from my side of the bridge, I got a bridge/crossing battle.

I'm pretty happy with the bridge battles. I got a map with three potential crossings, guarded two of them that were close together, the AI ended up going for just one of them, bunched them up when they got over and arrowed them. I do in part miss the medieval I bridges where a single unit of sergeants ould hold that bridge for ages :p But not really.

I'm really happy the river isn't just a bunch of this shallow water you get around castles. That stuff is weak. I've seen the moat around Nijō castle in Kyoto, you're not going to ride cavalry through that... Ditch the towers and bring in moats, I say.

[Forward Observer]

I've always had sort of a love/hate relationship with bridge battles. They have usually been kind of an exploit for the single player in most TW games---especially in Napoleon. In that game all one needed were 2 cannon units placed at each of the two crossings (usually a bridge and a shallows) flanked by infantry and the enemy would just march right in to--and be decimated by--loads of canister and small arms fire. One is always on the defense in Napoleon and Empire if they have superior artillery--which I always tended to have.

In Medieval 2, I got tons of kills at bridges with my ballistae.

The only TW game I can remember where the enemy AI units were able to contend with bridge battles in a halfway intelligent fashion was the first Shogun. (maybe Medieval 1 also, but it's been a long time since I played it)

If Shogie 1, if the enemy was on defense, (they always were in my games since I played very aggressively in the first Shogun) one was going to have to have have a numerically superior army with lots of Ashigaru to dash back and forth on the bridge as bait and loads of archers lining the bank to pelt any enemy that got in range. The goal was to run the enemy missile troops out of arrows while you still had fresh archers in reserve. Then one ended up with a big bunched up mêlée battle in the middle of the bridge while you were able to still rain arrow down on the enemy until their weakened units would break.

Those still tended to be a chore, but one had to contend with them since any province that contained a river automatically meant a bridge fight. Consequently, I'm really interested to see how a bridge battle in Shogun 2 plays out.

[Nelson]

I'm really interested to see how a bridge battle in Shogun 2 plays out.

My first bridge battle went like this:

Strategically, my army was standing on the bridge in Bungo awaiting an attack that was sure to come from the latest peasant rebellion. (The first was Christian. This one was hungry. Umm, due to a slight oversight about the shiny new fortress taking 3 food when Bungo was producing 2...)

Setup.

The rebels had a big force, 18 units with a 3 star general. 1 lt cav, 2 bow ashigaru, 2 teppo ashigaru and the rest yari ashigaru.

I had a 1 star general, a lt cav, 2 katana samurai, 4 bow ashigaru and 5 yari ashigaru.

The battle loads and we have a rather flat open plain with a bridge and 2 fords, one on either side of the bridge itself and each a fair distance away from said bridge. It was also raining cats and dogs.

I think "Good. The teppo should be worthless." I covered the bridge with yari in spear wall and 3 of the archers. The ford to the right I covered with a yari and an archer. The cav, samurai and general were farther behind the bridge forces in reserve. The ford to my left was unguarded. I did this on purpose to see what the AI would do.

The fight.

My forces snuggled up to the bridge in the hopes the rebels would come over it directly. The rebel general promptly did just that. He charged across it into the spear wall and the fire of 460 archers. I can't say this was suicidal as he withdrew after losing half his hatamoto. I'd like to think that in fair weather he would not have survived.

After this dangerous "How to" lesson in making a Burnside frontal assault (bridges were a kind of specialty for Ambrose), the rest of the rebel army crowded unto the crossing like a massive herd of cattle. Well over a thousand men pressed into a tiny area on my side as the spear wall bent into a cresent that never broke. Arrows fell as hard as the rain, in torrents. One rebel yari ashigaru tried to cross the ford on my right, the one that was covered. It was easily sent packing by the archers there and was destroyed by my lt cav, for whom these fellows, as things would unfold, were just an appetizer.

Several minutes of grinding melee went on at the bridge until the rebel general returned, this time, I think, to do his duty in the only way left. When he fell, the rout commenced. In went my soaked but fresh katana samurai who did not fight at all but instead executed.

The lt cavalry slammed into the rear of this roiling butcher shop and wore themselves out ending this second and hopefully last revolt in Bungo.

I lost between 300 and 400 yari ashigaru. Somehow around 100 rebels got away, mostly lt cavalry and I suppose some teppo, who never did fire a shot and whom I never noticed at all. The rain confounded them as it should have. My archers had over 800 kills.

I think it's too early to pass judgement on the tactical AI yet. Despite out numbering me, the odds were not good for it here once it determined to attack in the first place.

[Monk]

I've noticed the AI very rarely makes use of fords and alternate paths in a bridge battle. It's also sluggish to defend them when, on the flip side, you use them against it. The general AI defense on a bridge seems to be to skirmish with ranged units while you push toward the bridge. Once you make your move, to either continue to lay down fire or withdraw to a main line - and then its business as usual.

When the AI defends it's a very 'passive' defender, giving up the crossings with little fuss in my experience and only really pushing you once you've redrawn your lines on the other side of the river.

When it attacks it's nearly suicidal, throwing everything at you at once. While the field AI isn't perfect it's usually much more reserved than it is in a bridge attack.

[Gregoshi]

I've noticed the AI very rarely makes use of fords and alternate paths in a bridge battle...

I realize there are exceptions, but in the one and only bridge battle I've fought so far, the AI sent one unit of bow ashigaru to the bridge on my right and the rest stormed the ford in the center.

[antisocialmunky]

I think it does some sort of shortest path thing. I don't mind. The AI, if it has missile superiority will break your army with missiles because it'll run onto the bridge and attack your units that way.

[Zarky]

I've seen some better-than-bad performances from AI in bridge battles. In my battles AI has occasionally sent a single unit to cross over a ford while most try to pass through the bridge. At one point AI sent ashigaru unit walking that way, I sent my No-Dachi samurai to counter them, they turned back and so did I, then they turned around again and so did I, this continued for a while...

AI really should consider where to cross. In all my bridge battles, I would have been completely caught off guard if AI had sent all units to a ford or even split troops equally.

[Zarky]

I know this is slightly off topic, but has anyone else had a castle fight where there are these unexplained holes on the ground pretty much just beyond arrows reach? Kinda like trenches, but they're pointless...

I've just seen them and don't know what to think of them.