Too Slow ?

[LeftEyeNine]

Okay, I couldn't resist the tempting lure of my Nippon-o-philia and got my hands on ŞOOGÜN TUU TOOTIL VOOR.

After my first 3 attempts at Shimazu clan dominion having been way prematurely foiled by Shoni clan, in my 4th go, I preferred amassing an army without caring for the upkeep cost, forged a marriage-supported alliance with the Sagara, and then captured Osumi province from the Ito.

Based on previous experiences I waited for a Shoni invasion into Hyuga (had happened thrice), hence cutting off the breath of Ito clan but, I guess, flourishing on my trustworthy alliance that was ornamented with indefinitely-agreed military access as well, I saw Sagara, surprisingly, -'cause they were all peaceful before- erasing traces of the Ito clan, getting me locked away from any progress.

After replenishing the whole army, while being harrassed by Shoni warships at my bay, hence preventing me from naval trade, I set up an army of around 2000~ men and, woefully stabbed Sagara in the back. I can't say I was provocated by their revoking of military access rights though. Still their land was the only way to go. So I crushed a 1200-men defense at their capital, Higo, and captured it.

It's 1553 now and I got only 3 provinces: Satsuma, Osumi and recently-captured, wealthy and advanced Higo with two allied hostiles (Sagara + Shoni) on the island of Kyushu.

Do you think I'm too late for short-campaign dominance ? Especially considering that I can't support another army (the 2000 men is almost intact though) and have an income of around 800 koku (?), huh ?

[Naughtius Maximus]

Definitely too slow. You should be in a good position to get a leg up on the trade nodes; get as much money together as you can and start banging heads.

[LeftEyeNine]

Well I go down that route, I can't build an army even strong enough to stand up against Ito. My 1st game was demolished because of going Shogun 2 TW Civilization.

Now I got an army but economy is just on its toes already.

[Gregoshi]

I'm in a similar boat LEN. I'm trying to build up my economy to support a few armies, which leaves almost nothing to grow the army very fast - let alone the navy...and I'm Mori, I'm supposed to rule the sea. I'm finally getting some funds for the army, but not enough and the buildings are getting more expensive. I've got to try to grab a few more (rich) provinces. I've given up on winning my short campaign, but I plug along and try to learn as much this campaign and hold out as long as I can. My dreams of being Shogun are crushed by the reality of my situation.

[Kagemusha]

Well currently in my Hojo campaign.I tried my best to protect my back while I made short work off Ogigayatsu Uesugi, by forging alliance with Takeda. Shortly after Satake decided to declare war on me and just when i was about to destroy them.Uesugi who had grown pretty powerful by taking the Southern part of Mutsu and Dewa declared war on me, while Takeda backstabbed me by joining Uesugi, while they own Northern Shinano, Etchu. Noto, Hida and Kai. So now my alliance of my Clan, Imagawa,Satomi and Satake whom i had to make vassal are fighting alliance of Uesugi, Takeda,Kiso and Yamanouchi Uesugi. So to put it short Kanto is on fire right now and i cant gather enough forces against either Uesugi or Takeda to kick one of them out from the war.Im loving this game!

[LeftEyeNine]

That's WW Japan TW, Kage, not Shogun 2.

[The Black Ship]

You need to plunder some provinces...don't take control, just plunder. Try to spread the "love" if you want the big pay days as plundering the same provinces repeatedly leads to diminshing returns.

I tried keeping everything I could during my first campaign and found I couldn't afford it. Now, I keep only what my budget can take, and return the rest or puppet when allowed.

[LeftEyeNine]

But doesn't that backfire at you as a bad reputation which I GUESS would make one heck of a headache in future turns ?

[muha]

I had a good start as the Oda, took about 5 or so provinces in my short campaign, now its 1553, Im fighting a 3 front war vs Hojo, Takeda, and Hatorri, all three are bigger then I by now, and Im LOVING IT!

It seems every one is having trouble playing this game. Not just me... that makes me feel better about myself since I'm writing an AAR and am slowly but surely losing my campaign..

[Zarky]

What I've tried to do is set a goal when starting the game, such as Shikoku with Chosokabe, Kikkawa+starting enemy as Mori and Kyushu as Shimazu, then I essentially rush to that goal with heroic ashigaru victories. After my goal has been reached, I slow down and spend time setting up my economy and properly training samurais. Once you have a sturdy foundation for your economy, it's much easier to expand in any direction you choose.

[Diamondeye]

Well currently in my Hojo campaign.I tried my best to protect my back while I made short work off Ogigayatsu Uesugi, by forging alliance with Takeda. Shortly after Satake decided to declare war on me and just when i was about to destroy them.Uesugi who had grown pretty powerful by taking the Southern part of Mutsu and Dewa declared war on me, while Takeda backstabbed me by joining Uesugi, while they own Northern Shinano, Etchu. Noto, Hida and Kai. So now my alliance of my Clan, Imagawa,Satomi and Satake whom i had to make vassal are fighting alliance of Uesugi, Takeda,Kiso and Yamanouchi Uesugi. So to put it short Kanto is on fire right now and i cant gather enough forces against either Uesugi or Takeda to kick one of them out from the war.Im loving this game!

What I've tried to do is set a goal when starting the game, such as Shikoku with Chosokabe, Kikkawa+starting enemy as Mori and Kyushu as Shimazu, then I essentially rush to that goal with heroic ashigaru victories. After my goal has been reached, I slow down and spend time setting up my economy and properly training samurais. Once you have a sturdy foundation for your economy, it's much easier to expand in any direction you choose.

I think this is the right way to go; an early brawl and then consolidation.

[al Roumi]

What I've tried to do is set a goal when starting the game, such as Shikoku with Chosokabe, Kikkawa+starting enemy as Mori and Kyushu as Shimazu, then I essentially rush to that goal with heroic ashigaru victories. After my goal has been reached, I slow down and spend time setting up my economy and properly training samurais. Once you have a sturdy foundation for your economy, it's much easier to expand in any direction you choose.

I think this is the right way to go; an early brawl and then consolidation.

It cetainly lends itself to Shimazu, Chosokabe or arguably Mori - clans where you can make the most of geography to create a contained fiefdom. Probably harder to implement the turtle phase when in the mess of Eastern Honshu.

I am kicking myself for my eagerness to continue the fight after capturing Kyushu as Shimazu. I played about 10 turns raking in the cash (controlling all 4 western nodes) but it all evaporated (as my trade partners disapeared/reneged on me) once I waded into the mire of conflict on Honshu.

Balancing development of the Chi and Bushido tech trees is also critical. The research specialisation reward mechanic really leads you down a bit of a rabbit-hole -either too militaristic or too civic. This means I've had difficulty ensuring I'm teched up and developed sufficiently to produce enough food and cash from within provinces. I've come to regard trade revenue as inherently fragile and susceptible to the consequences of actually going for the Shogunate -a (rare) peacetime bonus rather than a dependable source of income. There really is a lot to balance in this game!

And I'm only on normal

[LeftEyeNine]

Well that was what I did. An early fight with a huge army but since almost nothing was done to increase the income, recruiting new troops could only have halted.

[Kagemusha]

I have been thinking all day long at work how to defeat the alliance im fighting and lets see now can i do that or how bad things will turn for the Hojo.

[Lemur]

I'm playing a Date campaign on normal, and I tried to go the vassal route. As in, "Allies will stab me in the back as soon as the Shogun gets irate at me, so I'm only gonna have vassals."

This worked for about ten seasons after the realm divide, and then one-by-one my vassals rebelled. Bloody heck. Insufficient boot-on-neckism or something. I think the first mod I would like to see would be one that dials down the insane diplo penalties after the Realm Divide, or at least tones them down on my VASSALS. We're going to rule Nippon together, after all, the Date clan and its loyal vassals. Together! Arm-in-arm! Marching into the future!

[LeftEyeNine]

If a game makes you think at work or in bed, then it's darn good.

At last.

So back to my sluggishness. >:|

[xploring]

This worked for about ten seasons after the realm divide, and then one-by-one my vassals rebelled. Bloody heck. Insufficient boot-on-neckism or something. I think the first mod I would like to see would be one that dials down the insane diplo penalties after the Realm Divide, or at least tones them down on my VASSALS.

Not exactly sure how it works, but there's a mod for realm divide already to make it more playable.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=436082

There are mods for morale and unit speed reduction, sounds like they will make battles more like it used to be.

[LeftEyeNine]

Um, what is this "realm divide" thing, if you wouldn't mind ? Something that's hardcoded ?

[Monk]

Um, what is this "realm divide" thing, if you wouldn't mind ? Something that's hardcoded ?

If i'm not mistaken, Realm Divide happens when your reputation bar gets full. Once that happens the Shogun declares you a threat to the safety of Japan and asks all other clans to wage war on you - and they will. The only people who won't immedietly declare war on you are your allies/vassals.

[LeftEyeNine]

If i'm not mistaken, Realm Divide happens when your reputation bar gets full. Once that happens the Shogun declares you a threat to the safety of Japan and asks all other clans to wage war on you - and they will. The only people who won't immedietly declare war on you are your allies/vassals.

"Immediately" not. That's a stress more than a relief. >:|

[Ituralde]

The way I understand it, Realm Divide manifests itself in a huge diplomacy modifier. It starts out slow, so your vassals and allies won't declare on you immediatelly. The longer Realm Divide goes on the larger the diplomacy modifier gets until you get to the point where everyone's at war with you.

The mentioned mod changes this, so that you get a larger initial diplomacy hit, but after that the effect actually wears off instead of getting worse. So you don't end up loosing all your allies and vassals one after another.

[Nelson]

I began a long Shimazu campaign on normal difficulty as it was rated as easy. Having never played the game before (obviously) I didn’t want additional challenges without knowing how things work.

I can’t really say that it’s been all that easy. It’s about 1555 now and I have subdued all of Kyushu and 3 trade nodes. I have also put down 2 peasant rebellions. Taxes are normal. I am presently at war with no one, trading with 7 clans and am building post roads everywhere. The plan is to allow fast movement so that a smaller garrison will be needed to protect the island from naval invasion. The navy is getting some attention also because I rely heavily on trade.

One province, Bungo IIRC, is 100% Christian and these guys have already revolted once. In fact they killed my daimyo as he defended his castle. I built a Buddhist temple there but it can’t overcome the effects of the nanban port that is on the coast. To help control these people I decided to build a level 3 castle that uses 3 food. I overlooked the fact that Bungo produces only 2 food and now I must alter my arts pursuits to get to terraced farming sooner than I intended. I considered burning the nanban port but it is valuable and worth trying to accommodate. I may still end up destroying it if the rebellions continue. I have no plans to convert the daimyo to Christianity.

I have no allies but have married off a daughter to the Date who are both well to do and powerful. I have no idea how long peace will reign but while it does I will continue to invest in my infrastructure. I have a couple of ninjas, a couple of monks and a metsuke keeping an eye on things.

Tactically I have found the AI to be aggressive. It almost always attacks regardless of who the aggressor is on the strategic map.

A long campaign has many turns. The need to move expand rapidly and continuously just isn’t there. It looks like moving cautiously with an occasional bold move is the way to go. Of course, I haven’t finished yet either…

[Monk]

There are mods for morale and unit speed reduction, sounds like they will make battles more like it used to be.

Tested out both of them. The unit speed modifiers are nice if you choose the right ones. Some make them too slow, but there's a number of options to choose from so I give it a thumbs up.

Morale mod goes too far in the extreme imo. 50% increase to morale across the board means Ashigaru don't route until they've taken 90% casualties or more. Not what I expect from peasants...

[LeftEyeNine]

I began a long Shimazu campaign on normal difficulty as it was rated as easy. Having never played the game before (obviously) I didn’t want additional challenges without knowing how things work.

I can’t really say that it’s been all that easy. It’s about 1555 now and I have subdued all of Kyushu and 3 trade nodes.

*commits seppuku*

[Lemur]

Not exactly sure how it works, but there's a mod for realm divide already to make it more playable.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=436082

Grabbing that immediately. I love this game, but the everybody-against-you thing with the realm divide makes me want to give up on my campaign. There goes trade, since I'm not allowed to trade with other nations, and there go my vassals. IRRITATING! I may re-start a campaign, since being able to have long-term allies and vassals would make a massive difference.

[al Roumi]

Grabbing that immediately. I love this game, but the everybody-against-you thing with the realm divide makes me want to give up on my campaign. There goes trade, since I'm not allowed to trade with other nations, and there go my vassals. IRRITATING! I may re-start a campaign, since being able to have long-term allies and vassals would make a massive difference.

I feel the same. My very friendly ally the chosokabe declared war on me only about 4 turns after everyone else, causing my revenue to go through the floor. Not only had I not really developed my markets and castles properly yet but with the whole world and his wife on my case, what resources I have will be going on troops. I'm a little irked by my readiness to give in and try again but I can't really see much of a long term future on my current revenue base and with so many enemies.

Now that I know the lay of the land a bit better I'm tempted to start anew and either play the game as CA delivered it (anticipating the mob's response -in a gamey way no doubt) or using this mod to play something arguably more consistent and satisfying.

I think I'll do the later as I'd rather not get too gamey.

[Lemur]

Yeah, I don't mind the challenge of everybody getting angry at you and declaring war, it's the inflexibility of the arrangement that bugs me. I should be able to pick off clans, make them outrageous promises and either buy them out of the war or pull them to my side. Having a permanent -200 diplo penalty that never goes away is too much. I'm a big fan of divide and conquer, so that game mechanic takes away a great deal of my strategic joy. Mod installed. New campaign begun. I think I'll go to the other end of the island and try the Shimazu next.

[LeftEyeNine]

Which one is historically accurate, is any comparison viable ? Vanilla or modded ?

[Lemur]

Well, for example the Odas and the Tokugawas managed an alliance that lasted for the lifetime of both warlords, even when Oda Nobunaga tried (and sort of succeeded) to seize the Shogunate. Other alliances and vassal/lord arrangements survived just fine. So the game mechanic, as it's set up right now, is ahistorical. Even people seeking ultimate power still had friends.

[LeftEyeNine]

So, CA followed a MTW-esque Pope (excommunication/crusades) route in this ? Why, I wonder.