March 29th MP Patch seems to be an improvement

[Tempiic]

The SP Custom mode works fine, but the MP Classic (which is exactly the same) hangs since the patch (some maybe before).

Not completely the same. I noticed that the SP custom mode has an adjustable funds option while the MP one does not.

[Kocmoc]

Im sure, that flanking and rearing wont get activated anymore. The problem is, that once units are in fight and bunched up (bubble-gum-units), there will always be "something" in the rear or on the flank.

If flanking and rearing should ever get back into the game, than we will see much more clustered units in the first place, so you can actual clearly say, where on earth the back of a unit is.
More clustered units means, that the looking of the game will be less attractive. Im sure CA did invest a lot of time to make all this units act like they do right now.

This sais, Im in heavy doubts that we will see more clustered units and this means, that we wont see rearing or flanking back at all. That rearing/flanking is off, I call almost a fact (cant be 100% sure, but i hardly doubt it)

One problem I see today is, that I only see full stat-numbers, If you look at a unit with mouseover and look at moral, attack.... You see full numbers, there are no 5,5 or something. I think, that the penalties will work the same way, they probably use full number. There are hidden moral penalties, mostly seen on the "bar" on the flag of the unit and shown numbers in the mouseover info.

I wrote about my tests in other treads already, to make it short:

1. You can do masstests, by moving one unit close to 10 of the enemy, you see the flag-bar droping and a low moral unit will waver, it wont run! Its the outnumber factor, in old days it was 1:10 and 1:100. I believe its still the same today.

2. If you now move a unit in the rear of this one unit, you wont see any different, same goes for the flank.

3. now test all the other things, we got a wavering unit, almost routing and rearing does nothing, flanking does nothing, "scaring enemies" does nothing, whistling arrow does nothing...
Every single moral penalty in game, does nothing at all!

Simple tests, you can do by yourself, try to fatigue the unit and so on.

Im sure, most things are taken off, so far only kill and quick kill drop moral, same as gen not around or many units dead in army, not to mention killed gen.



What really makes me going mad is the fact, that CA doesnt share any information. They tell us, that they are aware of our issues, bringing second patch, which change almost nothing apart from ladder and coward.
I still have to restart game all the time, client mistakes, resets and so on...

Some things will take time to fix, but to change 22k and artillery is a matter of one day or even less!


They could argue, that they dont use so many moral penalties to make it easyer for new player, but honestly.... we saw 200+ in most channels the first week, now we are below 30 in most channels, most of the new player are gone soon. While we are left, with a bad ladder, bad clancampaign (Id like to challange other clans and not the 300+ player who lose twice as much as winning), not working MM, not working classic mod, chrashing game, games where we see 4:0 or 3:1, with bald balance, arty allowed, too high funds, bad designed moral, bugged cav, bugged missles, bugged maps, border bugs, movement bugs, terrible designed stats.... I could continue...

Most of us keeps playing because they hope that CA will fix it. If they would say: "no, we never will get more moral penalties back" or "we wont fix most of the things" or "22k will keep into the game" or "artillery wont get removed".... than many of us would stop playing.

[UglyJun]

ok all we ask for to give us back stw with new graphics engine and some a little extras . what we got is acrcade crap with kushafuden. and the basic mp is broken why are they going backwards stw was good. the moral flanking all the stuff u cant manage in stw2 i cant understand what they where thinking ????

[quadalpha]

Wait wait. I obviously haven't been paying enough attention, but are you saying that the morale hit from flanking and encirclement is gone?

[Kocmoc]

Wait wait. I obviously haven't been paying enough attention, but are you saying that the morale hit from flanking and encirclement is gone?

Yes, thats exactly what Im saying!

There are a few additional information to this:

1. It is possible that rearing and flanking is still around, but than it is extremely low (this means that we speak about 0,* numbers)
2. It is possible that certain moral penalties are not cumulative and only the highest penalty is taken

To give you a picture:

Since outnumber effects are still there (1:10 and 1:100) you can put the lowest moral unit next to 20 enemy units.
The missle will drop moral (you can see it at the bar) and even start to waver, now if other moral penalties would have any effect, the unit should rout at some point, right?

I placed one of the 20 unit in the back of this wavering unit, one on the flank. We got scare enemy next to it, whistling arrows and a monk with warcry. Guess what...
Nothing happened!

The 2 points mentioned above show you what can be possible.

If just the highest penalty is taken, than the outnumber effect will be stronger as any other penalty, so you wont see rearing having any effect.


Now I personal think its number 1, since you can put 2 units in rear and flank and nothing happens to the moral bar on the unit flag!


Im almost sure, that its taken off completely, online you can already say, that flanking and rearing is pointless. Rearing has only one effect, and thats a higher killingspeed.
The game is done to killingspeed, nothing else. Apart from a few moral effect, such as gen dies or gen not in range, rally.... there is no real moral anymore.

The tests I described you can easy redo yourself.

[Rothe]

Good that I also happened to read the MP forum, even if I don't MP.

If CA wants to have a newbie friendly system, they should just have a few morale settings that enable/disable some of the modifiers to morale, instead of removing the penalties altogether.

[Kocmoc]

Good that I also happened to read the MP forum, even if I don't MP.

If CA wants to have a newbie friendly system, they should just have a few morale settings that enable/disable some of the modifiers to morale, instead of removing the penalties altogether.

CA seems to think, that putting moral penalties off, will make it easier for new player, which isnt the case!
Till a certain degree it make it easier, since you can now move terrible and still wont get punished for it. The problem is, that at this point people are not really new anymore.

In fact, the game got dumped down to a degree, where the whole idea of the game is questionable. We got a game now, almost without moral, at 22k it is moral off.
This has nothing to do with TW anymore, the moralsystem was the heart of the game, now we only have a normal arcade game left, where its all about killing speed and some counter. Play C&C, WC3 or SC2 is actual better, since those game are better balanced, more stable, with better ladder, better competition.

CA destroy their basement, kicking moral off like this, is the same as shooting in your foot while trying to win a marathon!

I explained it a few times and I could make some long read post here, so just in short.

With those rubberband-bubble-gum units, it is so hard to see where the back or the front of a unit is, once they are bunched up and in fight.
Im pretty sure, that the units change back and front a lot, with all those mens running wild individual, this way you would have a unit changing their back and front all the time, which means, that a unit would switch between reared and not reared fulltime.

The only solution would be much more clustered units, so you and also the Computer could clearly say where on earth the front of the unit is.
The same time, the nice little animations and all the little mens running somewhere wouldnt be in the game as it is right now.
This is really hard to change and I doubt CA will ever work on this again. They sold the copies!