Listening to the Jesuits - practical advice on converting to Christianity

**al Roumi** · 03-31-2011, 11:10

I've just started an Oda (long) campaign, cowardly choosing normal difficulty -Oda are rated hard anyway. :)

I'm keen to dabble with Christianity in this campaign. Previously, I've only played Shinto factions and done everything to suppress Chrisitanity. I feel there is something in the Oda rabble rousing/Ashigaru bonus which meshes with Christianity. I'm well aware this is historicaly dubious and a bit naf for a narrative but I'm nonetheless also intersted in having an army of monks causing revolts in my enemies provinces.

I have some qustions for those who have played a campaign with a Christian Daimyo, particularly anyone who has tried it in Central/Eastern Honshu.

1. How do you attract an offer for Nanban trade? Do I need to cross a certain threshold in (maritime?) trade before the Nanban will approach me?

2. Assuming I convert reasonably early on, what will the effect be on my neighbours, trade partners and allies who are (for the moment at least) Shinto? What have you done to manage the hit to diplomatic relations?

3. What effect do the provinces with a buddist tradition (i.e. where you can build a pilgrim's retreat) have on Christianity? Do they resist the spread of Chrsitianity? Do their bonuses apply to Christian monks recruited in the same province?

**Zarky** · 03-31-2011, 12:59

Originally Posted by al Roumi

1. How do you attract an offer for Nanban trade? Do I need to cross a certain threshold in (maritime?) trade before the Nanban will approach me?

2. Assuming I convert reasonably early on, what will the effect be on my neighbours, trade partners and allies who are (for the moment at least) Shinto? What have you done to manage the hit to diplomatic relations?

3. What effect do the provinces with a buddist tradition (i.e. where you can build a pilgrim's retreat) have on Christianity? Do they resist the spread of Chrsitianity? Do their bonuses apply to Christian monks recruited in the same province?

Well my only successful campaign with Christian clan was Shimazu, but some attempts at a more eastern Christian clan.

1. as far as I know, there is no way to attract nanban trade offers, as long as you have trading ports and not all military ports there should eventually be an offer. It seems western clans always get offers earlier, like Mori and Chosokabe but in my Tokugawa campaign first offers came only after 60 turns.

2. This is tricky because there definitely is a big negative hit to all relations and getting trade agreements becomes harder. Ideal situation might be where you have all your allies and trading partners before you convert. There is little you can do to really improve the relations later on unless you have a plenty of daughters to marry off.

3. Buddhist traditions become mostly ineffective for Christians. Monks do not get the experience level bonus, they get a lot of experience from inciting revolts which is really easy as Christian. You should therefore build the Pilgrim Hostel path to get the +5 morale bonus to all troops recruited there. It could be like a mediocre training center likes of which you would build to provinces with blacksmiths.
But they do not convert at all so you don't have to worry about that.

**MCM** · 03-31-2011, 14:31

Frankly Oda isn't really going to be practical to be Christian. I suppose you can make it work somehow.

The problem is that when you (the daimyo) first convert to Christianity, there's going to be a huge burst in unrest, even if your provinces are mostly Christian already.

You can't convert provinces to Christianity unless you are already Christian - you can't build Chapel-line buildings or recruit Missionaries until you convert.

The Nanban Trade Port will let you convert a single province, as you can only build one. As some clans, you get access to it fairly early - the Shimazu have it from the very start of the game.

You need to convert early to get access to all the population-conversion technology, buildings, and missionaries, and then start converting provinces (preferably before you conquer them). You simply can't do that as Oda, and you have to start conquering because you'll be at war with lots of people from the start.

So when you finally have the chance to convert, you've already got a decent number of provinces that will make the conversion very tricky, and pretty much halt your expansion.

Christianity is good for otherwise weak or remote clans. Clans like Oda and Tokugawa are not that. They have to be strong from the start because there's so much competition in the central provinces.

That said, I can't wait to see how it goes for you. :)

**al Roumi** · 03-31-2011, 15:13

Thanks guys, and especially for the warning MCM :)

I guess it will hang on when I actually get the offer of Nanban trade.

**Zarky** · 03-31-2011, 15:21

I believe the non-clan religion penalty peaks at 7 or so unhappiness, so you'd need almost as many ashigaru units each province to counter the conversion. What I found helping as Chosokabe (though rather easy to convert to begin with) is the left-most general skill tree path which leads you to +4 conversion to clan religion among other things, not a bad idea to have your conquering general do some converting on the side.

**al Roumi** · 04-01-2011, 08:52

Right, well I was approached by the Nanbans in 1555-6. I elected to built the trade centre in my Capital. The screeny below shows the state of things a few turns after the trade post has been up and running. Christianity is just below 20% and rising.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I know I will have to go through a quite introspective period of religious transfer and my lands a larger than I'd ideally like:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I'm currently at war with the Hojo but can contain them with one of my 5 stacks. What I'm more worried about is maintaining the bountiful trade I've established with near enough everyone, and hoping they don't immediately start to hate me for switching to christianity.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I've noticed that being of the wrong religion gives a -10 penalty to diplo relations, i'm hoping I can ride it out.