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Thread: Tips on unit setup

  1. #1

    Default Tips on unit setup

    I just hit level 3 and I'm hitting medium koku engagements. I did ok on small koku engagements but on medium koku engagements I'm just getting roflstomped. Do people use lots of vets or normal units at this level? Should you use lots of loan swords or swordsmen and leave yari for arrow eating / cav blocking? And do you use ashigaru archers or samurai archers?

    How many cav should you have and should it be light cav or yari. Yari cav just seems like lots of micromanage to engage, withdraw and engage again. When do you send your cav in? Do you wait for the line to start crumbling or try to flank immediately. Do you have to disengage and reform and rush again or can you disengage slightly and charge again.

    No-Dachi samurai, I've had no success with disengaging and charging them back in.

    How long does the charge bonus last? Is it just for the initial 'hit' or does it last for a bit.

    Thanks for any tips!

  2. #2
    The Count of Bohemia Senior Member Cecil XIX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips on unit setup

    I'm not sure about much yet, but I have learned a few things about Yari Cavalry. Because they rely on the charge, it's best to wait for an opportunity to present itself rather than try to make one yourselft. Hit the enemy where they're already engaged, and the shock of the charge will do a lot of damage. Another thing is to try to use forests as much as possible. Take a few seconds at the start of battle and see if the the terrain allows you to deploy Cavalry hidden in the forests, and if you can get the enemy to fight you close to where the cavalry will hidden. By keeping your cavalry hidden all throughout the battle, you maximise the chance that the enemy will inadvertantly create an opening for them.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Senior Member Dionysus9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips on unit setup

    Good questions. At this point your lack of unit selection is going to be your biggest handicap-- you need to be moving your avatar around on the campaign map and visiting new provinces so you can unluck new units, like naginatas, and warrior monk matchlocks. You are probably facing a lot of units that are "better" than what you have available, so that makes it tough. My win ratio's definitely suffered as I broke into higher funds matches.

    Yari cav is of course superior to Light Cav man vs. man, but 2 light cav units gives you more versatility. Alot of your unit selection choices are going to come down to play style. If you are good at micromanaging then you might want more units to play around with. Some people like cav heavy armies, some like infantry.

    Disengaging units to get another charge bonus is risky if the unit is in any way depleted or wavering, or if it is currently being engaged by the enemy unit it is trying to disengage from (obviously it is fighting the enemy unit, but what I mean is, if you try and disengage and the enemy unit follows you [i.e. if the enemy unit is actively targeting the unit you are trying to disengage] then you normally take a lot of casualties] . Sometimes its better to just let them slug it out. I'm not sure if you can disengage "slightly" and then re-charge-- meaning you wpuldn't have to wait for your unit to completely form up into a square again, but would just have to make sure that all its men are out of melee combat before re-charging.

    I think you only get the charge bonus on first impact, and then only the actual men (sprites) in your unit that are situated so as to actually be charging. Guys in the third rank or who are still pathing wont get the charge bonus.

    So I think if you are trying to break the morale of a unit, you might want to wait for your chargers to completely re-form into a square so that when they hit the enemy unit they will inflict a lot of casualties all at once. If you let them only "slightly" disengage then they are going to come back into melee combat piece-meal and although they will each (probably) get a charge bonus on re-establishing melee contact, its not going to all hit the enemy unit at once so the effect on morale would be less.

    That being said, it seems that unit morale is too high and flanking penalties are too light in Shogun 2. So maybe it doesnt make as much difference as it should?

    I don't know if anyone has done any scientific testing but I'll wager that AMP and Kocmoc have a very good idea of how and when their units are receiving the charge bonus.

    I flank and send my cav in as soon as I can do so safely. If the enemy leaves his ranged units unattended by spears, you can bet I'm sending my cav in (unless I suspect a trap, as Cecil advises).
    Hunter_Bachus

  4. #4

    Default Re: Tips on unit setup

    Hard to say Hamysho, as I've seen lots of combinations from my opponents and myself, and most of them seem to be working, eventhough certain units have certain roles to play. Each unit have an use. What would be handy to do is to try to field as much unupgraded veterans besides the couple upgraded ones, so that they'll gain experience for later while costing as much as the regular units.

    However rather than the tier 3 units, I'd first go after the discount retainers.

    Personally I avoided the loan swords, having taken a mixture of katanas and a strong cav presence until I got naginata samurai and guns.

    Regarding no-dachi samurai, I'd only take one unit of these and use them as a reserve unit, to strike at an already engaged unit. Which will make disengaging and recharging easier. I've played with 2 cav units and as much as up to 8. Both can work, depending on your overall plan and use of said units. I am fond of keeping my yari cav somewhat in reserve or at the flanks, while my 3 light cav units do the skirmishing as they cost much less so can be sacrificed. And sometimes draw enemy cav in so your yari cav can counter charge. Generally it is better to engage enemy infantry with cav when they are already engaged, but sometimes you simply have not the luxery to wait for a weak spot.

    What ever you do, cover your weakness or increase your strenghts (which in this game I find to be the same). If taking few cav, you'll need more spears to help deal with enemy cav. If taking more cav, you'd need less spears but more swords to deal with enemy spears.

    I've used both ashi bows and sam bows, preferring a mixture where the bodies of the ashi shield the sam ones.

    Most important thing though, is to keep your general alive and realize that everything can be sacrificied. But it is much better to reinforce and focus on your line where you are stronger and gaining rather than where you are weaker and loosing.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Tips on unit setup

    at that low levle you just need to go for numbers not skill but still try get some tier 2 or 3 units if you can vets as you will need them later on in the game

  6. #6

    Default Re: Tips on unit setup

    Hey, so I remember my first 10K game. I was all ready and used to those 5k games and enjoying them quite a bit. They were very intense and fun. I had armies saved for 5k and had no idea when I would jump up to 10K so it took me totally off guard, I was lost, and on top of that my opponent was nice enough to ready up as soon as we connected so I didn't have time to think out my units. I just took a larger version of what had worked for me in the 5k battles: ashi spears, ashi bows, and 2 yari cav. Needless to say I got stomped, was not happy.

    But I've learned, and I expect you will too. As someone who enjoys going archer heavy and likes to win the skirmish battle please note that bow samurai are your best enemy and worst friend. It doesn't take very many upgrades for bow ashigaru to just be better than them, when vetting bowmen always focus on accuracy first as I believe that it doesn't matter how fast your guys shoot, or how much damage they do, if they aren't hitting the enemy then they aren't doing anything. I found that after maxing their accuracy upgrades they can easily outshoot unvetted bow samurai for much less the price, and even if they can't win if your general is nearby they will usually eat enough arrows to protect your melee guys.

    As for your specific build go with what you like, feel free to experiment and have fun losing/learning. Don't get frustrated and pay attention to what your opponents have. Always go for a balanced army as those are the most reliable, and most fun to play with/against.

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