True in principle, but I'd say it's more of a mid-game thing. Early on you can't afford a fleet -and- a half-decent army. So the alternative to having a fleet is island-hopping: making sure your armies never end the turn at sea except in a port. You'll lose the occasional cheap bireme, but that's acceptable.

Later on I do as you say and build a couple of decent war-fleets. The cheap lemboi remain in use as troop-transports.

Ksifos: The thing to remember with EB fleets is that you can't merge them -except- if other ships are already present in the port when the new fleet is being constructed. This is because the engine otherwise appoints the new fleet an admiral, immediately gives him a "summer" or "winter" trait and admiral's ships can't join in RTW. Combined fleets obviously cut down on micromanagement enormously and give a minor gameplay advantage in that they can all find shelter in the same port.

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athanaric - you are right but that is impossible at the start where money goes down each round.If I recall well I got up to minus 12000 mnai before I started recovering.So early on, to build fleet was not an option.I now have a small fleet patrolling the Aegean and occasionally transporting troops to minor Asia where my main military front exists.Future plans involve invading of Cyprus as already been said, and I believe is a very important move strategically.
The difference with vanilla? Cyprus is WELL guarded ;-)

Randal - Thanks for the tip I didn't know that, yet it seems quite logical.The more I learn about EB the more I can sense how well designed it is by all aspects.

Small update - Epirotes are now silenced, having only two cities and for the time being I let them be.I have a feeling that if I eliminate them, the Senate would order a full scale invasion and right now that is something I can not afford.I eliminated Macedon and now besieging rebel Sardike.I plan to build my territory up to Dunav river then expand to the minor Asia and Crimea.I am allied to the Getai nation but I always have the fear of this people looking to plunder my rich cities :-P

For now the eastern front is full of action! While the Seleucid is not attacking maybe due to lack of resources or being distracted with something else, the Ptolemae has launched a FULL scale attack.I can not stop fighting this backstabbing scam :-P He besieges Ipsos each round, and I have to help lift the siege.I have a full stack on a hill near Ipsos blocking the way to the city.Inside the city my faction leader also with a full stack.

I had a major battle when a strategos of theirs passed by my army and besieged the town.On the other hand the smart AI had three medium stacks (around 1200~1300 each) attack from three directions simultaneously.Hopefully I wasnt encircled but still the odds were pretty even.
The result was a heroic victory for Klearchos Philasios and a bonus star as a result of this epic battle.Lasted over half an hour !!!

As I said in a previous post I had to adapt my tactics.As another poster said, cavalry is vital.It is the unit to win the battle.Now I always field a couple of Prodoromoi who with their nice stamina are ideal for killing the fleeing enemy and deploying them fast where it is needed.Also at least a unit of Xystophoroi who are the shock cavalry and give the decisive blow.Plus a couple of Hetairoi Aspidophoroi for disrupting the AI plans :-P

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.Keep 'em coming :-)

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Of course, the war fleet only becomes important when you're about to seize Ionia or Kypros. The most important thing at the start is to get Korinthos and Kydonia ASAP and then build up the economy (ports!!!), while fending off the Makedonians.
And don't forget to tech up your factional barracks on Krete to level 4, so that you can train more Kretan Archers. Don't train too many though, because they're somewhat OP. Also, level 3 factional MIC on Rhodos willl produce Rhodian Slingers, which are great vs cavalry and heavy infantry.


Yes but the Ptolies rarely reinforce it. Also, they cannot train elite units there, having a Type III government in place, so the most dangerous troops you'll encounter on the island are Thureophoroi. Be aware of Ptolemaioi fleets though. They love to recruit those floating pimpmobiles which have insane stats.

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oh watch out, asia minor is quite a swamp when the Selecids are having tailwind, they throw armies at you mostly made of Phalangites of all types. be carefull when expanding into asia minor, early in game it can demmobilize you, watch out for Getic or Epirote agression(even when allied, you can never trust them! tho the Getai seem to be rather affable, in every KH campaign it took them ages to attack me even tho I had bordered them for quite a while) and do not forgot to ensure enough mobile army to enforce a poleis in destress(or have a good diplomat to cover up the mess ;) ).
In terms of navy I like to invest my money when availible(thus when you can afford building something in every settlement and have surplus money) in large low level fleets that may not win the day but at least don't get sunk by Pirates let alone AI navies, through sheer size can transport your strike forces fairly safe to Pontos, North africa or southern france. still Trieremiolai are my preffered weapon when fighting pirtates later on.
Serdike is a good target, generally going north is not a bad idea, as this is THE troop center for regional troops. and also holds large quantities of mines which can boost your economy quite a bit.

whats also fun at a later strage of game are viking tactics once you got control of the eastern mediterranean: get spies all over the medditerranean get a small fleet and an army with 5-10 units of which most usefull in sieges, and ransack all coastal cities of Ptolies and seleucids that lack a sizeable Garrison ;)
apart from the army paying for it's self you also setback the Diadochi arms industry, which reduces the number of agyraspidai or ptolemaic agemas. plus when destroying both ports that block the passage into the red sea you could mount a suicide mission into Persia(very silly but quite fun indeed)

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As Makedonia, i wiped out Getai before they got too big to contain later on. Now i am very safe on every angle! It'll be decades before Suebi come my way. And the huge amount of mines from Thermon to Sigdinum, Segestica and Byzantion have so much money coming in that I feel awesome. Macedonians aren't the greatest traders it seems, like as Karthalo we were making 40,000 a year just through our vast trading empire, but we get by :)

I really do feel like Philip reforming the petty kingdom into a force capable of taking on the world.

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That sounds maybe like a solution to my financial problems lol.But Getai is a force that needs careful planing.I will think of it a short term expendition. ;-)

Macedones were always about greatness.So go for it :-P
Btw what are the Romans and Ptolemaioi doing in your game?

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well i mean post Pyrrhus :-P

well by the time you can take on Getai, they may have spread too far. they only had 3 cities by 265, but with 2 full stacks. I sent my newly reformed professional army (i took Hellas with my levies and semi professionals) to siege their two main cities, knowing their stacks would attack and bring the inhabitants of the cities as well allowing me to shatter their army and take the city in one stroke. I defeated both armies but with some very crazy fighting, the wolves truly were fighting for their homeland! rewarding the bravery of the Getai i didn't sell anyone into slavery, their manpower is useful in my new armies :-)


The Ptolemaioi are struggling real bad against Seleukeia. They lost all posessions in Asia Minor and are desperately clinging to Jerusalem. The Romans have spread all the way to Emporion westward, but i currently have magna Graeca and Sicily and i intended to give it to Rome, but i'm not sure anymore as the greeks there seem to prefer my rule to anyone else. the reason I have all of sicily and the epirotes are completely dead is that the Epirotes of Magna Graec dared attack Syrakuse! I convinced Hero with some gold and my own reputation that being a friend of Macedona is better than being my enemy.

The Carthaginians of Lilibeo also had a full stack of elites which made the Syrakusans and Messanians now under my control very uncomfortable. I defeated it in a surprise night attack and after some hard fighting, my greatest losses yet!, i had victory. i took Lilibeo, killing their shopet Hamalcar and his son Hamalcar. With this huge set back i have the Carthaginian's paying me large tribute until all eternity. lest they want the Macedonian's in Carthage itself :-)

So far I have ended The KH, The Epirotes, and the Dacians. who's next? muahaha

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Athanaric - I hope you are right about Cyprus.While is not a short term goal yet.I imagine it will be a "Viking raid" like CA Putt described, lol

CA putt- You are 100% right.Ptolemaios brings armies with phalanxes and maybe a couple of peltasts.No archers, horses, etc Just phalanx lol.While the phalanx has a terrifying view, it has a MAJOR disadvantage.It is very SLOW to manoever.My main army consists of hoplites (levy,classic) peltasts, Cretan Archers, Slingers, Aspidoforoi and their light counterpart, and a lot of cavalry (Prodromoi and Xystophoroi).

- I always advance in the flanks so my formation becomes like a "crescent moon".The main advantage is mobility and lethality of ranged units when attacking in the back of the phalanx.Their line formation is most usually disrupted and then I look for opportunities to encircle them and of course give the final charges with heavy cavalry.
- The AI is smart though! He now fields mostly Klerouchoi Phalangitai who have the cavalry bonus ;-)

This is going to be big.Your suggestion to go for a raid seems logical because otherwise I will fight in minor asia forever lol.And this costs a lot.
I still look for expanding my economy but still cant afford to upgrade mines (I am on 231BC) :-(
I am trying building on my population instead.

What I dont understand is some cities having high unrest (for example Hellikarnasos has 50%!!!).That is an EB feat but havent got it yet :-P

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