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Some people get all the breaks eh?
There are people with PhDs whom have made vast contributions to the bank of human knowledge who make half or 1/4 of this. Hell, some of these people are unemployed
Of course, I can't hate on her for filling her niche and making her money. Don't hate the player as the old saying goes
But one’s mind does wander to dark places when one realizes people will pay exuberant amounts of money to be inundated with a world view they already subscribe to, from a person who is a living breathing caricature of that world view
NO SPELLING MISTAKES
Some people get all the breaks eh?
There are people with PhDs whom have made vast contributions to the bank of human knowledge who make half or 1/4 of this. Hell, some of these people are unemployed
Of course, I can't hate on her for filling her niche and making her money. Don't hate the player as the old saying goes
But one’s mind does wander to dark places when one realizes people will pay exuberant amounts of money to be inundated with a world view they already subscribe to, from a person who is a living breathing caricature of that world view
NO SPELLING MISTAKES
I think Bristol Palin is an excellent argument for sexual abstinence. Worth every penny.
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
NO SPELLING MISTAKES
Punctuation errors. NO SPELLING MISTAKES
In a way, I feel bad for her. Abstinence only sex ed is a joke, and I wonder how ignorant she was about safe sex, pregnancy, etc. It makes me sad that she earned money for advocating abstinence after she had a child. Not because of her, personally, but because I feel like she's a pawn in her mother's political aspirations. She's the poster child for how abstinence only sex ed is unrealistic.
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat:
Punctuation errors.
In fairness, English is my first langaugePunctuation errors.
Does this make her a constitute? 
Just like the Pastors of religions that rake in vast sums for telling people what they want to hear.
If she wants to earn her money being derided by vast numbers of people then so be it. As has already been said by others, that she is used as an example appears... stupid: "I had sex, it was great. I got pregnant and now I earn a load of money telling you not to! Don't get pregnant - let me be the only one with a highly paid, cushy job."
If she wants to earn her money being derided by vast numbers of people then so be it. As has already been said by others, that she is used as an example appears... stupid: "I had sex, it was great. I got pregnant and now I earn a load of money telling you not to! Don't get pregnant - let me be the only one with a highly paid, cushy job."
Should she not at least be able to get the message across in her own family, before she starts to rake in the cash?
She could also lead by being a bad example and tell others how, even though she loves her child of course, it was a mistake to have had sex etc.
I mean aren't a whole lot of street workers and youth program leaders former problem kids who try to prevent others from making the same mistakes?
I mean aren't a whole lot of street workers and youth program leaders former problem kids who try to prevent others from making the same mistakes?
Originally Posted by Husar:
She could also lead by being a bad example and tell others how, even though she loves her child of course, it was a mistake to have had sex etc.
I mean aren't a whole lot of street workers and youth program leaders former problem kids who try to prevent others from making the same mistakes?
They aren't earning $250k+ for their lifestyle. How is it to be portrayed as a "mistake" when the individual is almost a celebrity, not someone earning a low salary for a role that is underappreciated? I might earn close to that in a decade or more, after training for the previous decade. Or get horny and flexible. Tough choice, eh?She could also lead by being a bad example and tell others how, even though she loves her child of course, it was a mistake to have had sex etc.
I mean aren't a whole lot of street workers and youth program leaders former problem kids who try to prevent others from making the same mistakes?
Well the American Christian Right is corrupt as ****, at least at the higher levels.
Having said that, abstinence is 100% effective. Although I don't think that's why the Christian Right should focus on it. It should be a moral issue, not a practical one to avoid unwanted pregnancies.
Having said that, abstinence is 100% effective. Although I don't think that's why the Christian Right should focus on it. It should be a moral issue, not a practical one to avoid unwanted pregnancies.
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
Having said that, abstinence is 100% effective.
Abstinence itself is 100% effective (except for that one case, of course Having said that, abstinence is 100% effective.
)...but the STRATEGY of abstinence is DISMALLY ineffective.Because, simply, a very significant percentage end up not abstaining, and because they have been denied access/information on other strategies, when they do it is often almost completely unprotected.
Yea abstinence is 100% effective when the kids are told the truth about sex but if you just tell em "Oi Nooooo" like some Harry Enfield sketch then twill fail.
I bet the stats on kids who break the pledge would be they invariably have unprotected sex 100% of the time when they break it.
I bet the stats on kids who break the pledge would be they invariably have unprotected sex 100% of the time when they break it.
would this also count if it was non voluntary abstinence?
damn it I could be a millionaire!
damn it I could be a millionaire!
Originally Posted by Ronin:
would this also count if it was non voluntary abstinence?
damn it I could be a millionaire!
would this also count if it was non voluntary abstinence?
damn it I could be a millionaire!
Yeah people always make fun of abstience, funny how when they go the opposite route and teach kids things from Primary School you end up with the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe and a generation of chavs raising kids on benefits.
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
Yeah people always make fun of abstience, funny how when they go the opposite route and teach kids things from Primary School you end up with the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe and a generation of chavs raising kids on benefits.
Thats not cos of sex education and you know it to be true yourself Rhy, how many of those people are coming at the situation either from overindulgence of alcohol or purely because they live in a scummy council estate with zero family values or boundaries.Yeah people always make fun of abstience, funny how when they go the opposite route and teach kids things from Primary School you end up with the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe and a generation of chavs raising kids on benefits.
edit 1: on a purely unrelated note i couldnt help noticing your new sig and I want to say I too support the right of self determination for Ulster and hope to see the day when all 9 counties stand together.
edit 2: course there might not be such a great gra for a free Ulster with an even more sizeable and probably now Catholic majority.
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy:
Thats not cos of sex education and you know it to be true yourself Rhy, how many of those people are coming at the situation either from overindulgence of alcohol or purely because they live in a scummy council estate with zero family values or boundaries.
Yeah I know the problems run much deeper. But I'm just saying for all the mockery of the effectiveness of abstinence, the alternative kind of bombed spectacularly. The way some people talk you would think they could create a utopia just by throwing condoms at people, but guess what it didn't work.Thats not cos of sex education and you know it to be true yourself Rhy, how many of those people are coming at the situation either from overindulgence of alcohol or purely because they live in a scummy council estate with zero family values or boundaries.
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy:
edit 1: on a purely unrelated note i couldnt help noticing your new sig and I want to say I too support the right of self determination for Ulster and hope to see the day when all 9 counties stand together.
edit 2: course there might not be such a great gra for a free Ulster with an even more sizeable and probably now Catholic majority.
I always find it funny when people throw the 9 counties thing at me. The think its funny how Huns talk about the six-country Northern Ireland as Ulster when the historic one also included Donegal/Monaghan/Cavan. When Republicans get all anal about it, I like to point out that its funny how Irish natioanlists insist on defining their own borders using those created by the Tudor administration to oversee the planatations. Zing!edit 1: on a purely unrelated note i couldnt help noticing your new sig and I want to say I too support the right of self determination for Ulster and hope to see the day when all 9 counties stand together.
edit 2: course there might not be such a great gra for a free Ulster with an even more sizeable and probably now Catholic majority.
Boundaries change. The first map we have of Ireland shows Ulster as a small province roundabout Antrim/Down, it was only much later it came to mean where it does now. Everyone knows what people mean by Ulster, they are talking about the idea of a nation, not some arbitrary lines on a map drawn up hundreds of years ago.
A look at some statistics regarding teenage pregnancy doesn't immediately give any clues. At bottom (ignoring NK and China), births per 1000 women:
South Korea - 3
Japan - 4
Switzerland - 5
Netherlands - 5
Spain - 6
At the top for the richer countries:
U.S. - 53
New Zealand - 27
Hungary - 21
UK - 20
Though of course, number of abortions will further complicate the issue, as can be seen on p. 20 here.
So, if reducing teenage pregnancy is a goal, it seems that a one-size-fits-all approach is not going to be a success. For instance, what does Iceland (19) share with the Czech Republic (17), that it does not share with Sweden and Denmark (both 7)? Why is the number for the Netherlands 5, closer to Japan's 4 than Germany's 11?
South Korea - 3
Japan - 4
Switzerland - 5
Netherlands - 5
Spain - 6
At the top for the richer countries:
U.S. - 53
New Zealand - 27
Hungary - 21
UK - 20
Though of course, number of abortions will further complicate the issue, as can be seen on p. 20 here.
So, if reducing teenage pregnancy is a goal, it seems that a one-size-fits-all approach is not going to be a success. For instance, what does Iceland (19) share with the Czech Republic (17), that it does not share with Sweden and Denmark (both 7)? Why is the number for the Netherlands 5, closer to Japan's 4 than Germany's 11?
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
I always find it funny when people throw the 9 counties thing at me. The think its funny how Huns talk about the six-country Northern Ireland as Ulster when the historic one also included Donegal/Monaghan/Cavan. When Republicans get all anal about it, I like to point out that its funny how Irish natioanlists insist on defining their own borders using those created by the Tudor administration to oversee the planatations. Zing!
Boundaries change. The first map we have of Ireland shows Ulster as a small province roundabout Antrim/Down, it was only much later it came to mean where it does now. Everyone knows what people mean by Ulster, they are talking about the idea of a nation, not some arbitrary lines on a map drawn up hundreds of years ago.
Boundaries changed absolutely not a chance of that man how will we run the local junior B championship for GAAI always find it funny when people throw the 9 counties thing at me. The think its funny how Huns talk about the six-country Northern Ireland as Ulster when the historic one also included Donegal/Monaghan/Cavan. When Republicans get all anal about it, I like to point out that its funny how Irish natioanlists insist on defining their own borders using those created by the Tudor administration to oversee the planatations. Zing!
Boundaries change. The first map we have of Ireland shows Ulster as a small province roundabout Antrim/Down, it was only much later it came to mean where it does now. Everyone knows what people mean by Ulster, they are talking about the idea of a nation, not some arbitrary lines on a map drawn up hundreds of years ago.
edit
Now I had a better think those upstart Tudors only codified what was already there to begin with
Mayo = Maigh Eo, meaning "Plain of the yew trees"
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk:
They aren't earning $250k+ for their lifestyle. How is it to be portrayed as a "mistake" when the individual is almost a celebrity, not someone earning a low salary for a role that is underappreciated? I might earn close to that in a decade or more, after training for the previous decade. Or get horny and flexible. Tough choice, eh?
Well, some people put a lot of hard work into cleaning the streets and disposing the waste others produce, a very vital service in our society unless we want to drown in our own waste, yet they don't earn a whole lot. I wasn't saying her wages/earnings are fair, just that you don't have to be an excellent example of what you preach to convince others.They aren't earning $250k+ for their lifestyle. How is it to be portrayed as a "mistake" when the individual is almost a celebrity, not someone earning a low salary for a role that is underappreciated? I might earn close to that in a decade or more, after training for the previous decade. Or get horny and flexible. Tough choice, eh?
The pay apparently depends on what people/the market are willing to pay for it, guess she's just better at choosing the right job.
Originally Posted by Husar:
Well, some people put a lot of hard work into cleaning the streets and disposing the waste others produce, a very vital service in our society unless we want to drown in our own waste, yet they don't earn a whole lot. I wasn't saying her wages/earnings are fair, just that you don't have to be an excellent example of what you preach to convince others.
The pay apparently depends on what people/the market are willing to pay for it, guess she's just better at choosing the right job.
Or there is a lot of fools who fancy throwing money at her to be told what they already believeWell, some people put a lot of hard work into cleaning the streets and disposing the waste others produce, a very vital service in our society unless we want to drown in our own waste, yet they don't earn a whole lot. I wasn't saying her wages/earnings are fair, just that you don't have to be an excellent example of what you preach to convince others.
The pay apparently depends on what people/the market are willing to pay for it, guess she's just better at choosing the right job.
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
Yeah people always make fun of abstience, funny how when they go the opposite route and teach kids things from Primary School you end up with the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe and a generation of chavs raising kids on benefits.
In the US, teen pregnancy is up and many have attributed this to lack of comprehensive sex education. Teens who are only taught abstinence and then still have sex will do so entirely unprotected. Or, they'll rely on rumor and second hand information about how to prevent pregnancy, i.e. pulling out, standing up immediately after, assuming one can't get pregnant her first time, etc. Or, they will "abstain" by remaining technical virgins and engage in other sexual behavior that is not intercourse and give each other STIs that way. Yeah people always make fun of abstience, funny how when they go the opposite route and teach kids things from Primary School you end up with the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe and a generation of chavs raising kids on benefits.
There's nothing wrong with teaching that abstinence is the 100% effective method for avoiding pregnancy because it's true. That said, abstinence only education courses in US public schools are shame-based and I think it's wrong to try and scare or shame teens into remaining abstinent. Further, US abstinence only programs reinforce antiquated notions regarding gender. For both gender but especially girls. Many of the abstinence only programs have religious undertones and place the responsibility for preventing premarital sex on the shoulders of girls. Or worse, they teach girls that if they have premarital sex they won't have the "gift" of their virginity for their husbands.
Attaching shame to sex is not the answer.
I remember the day the teacher was going to do sex ed with us, she stood at the top of the class and said "blah blah talk about sex" we all sniggered like the 11/12yr olds we were so the teacher got mad and refused to hold the class and that was that for sex ed.
When I think back it was an outrageous stance to take by the teacher, but then we were not the "right sort" of people being country thicko farmers and all.
When I think back it was an outrageous stance to take by the teacher, but then we were not the "right sort" of people being country thicko farmers and all.
Originally Posted by Scienter:
In the US, teen pregnancy is up and many have attributed this to lack of comprehensive sex education. Teens who are only taught abstinence and then still have sex will do so entirely unprotected. Or, they'll rely on rumor and second hand information about how to prevent pregnancy, i.e. pulling out, standing up immediately after, assuming one can't get pregnant her first time, etc. Or, they will "abstain" by remaining technical virgins and engage in other sexual behavior that is not intercourse and give each other STIs that way.
There's nothing wrong with teaching that abstinence is the 100% effective method for avoiding pregnancy because it's true. That said, abstinence only education courses in US public schools are shame-based and I think it's wrong to try and scare or shame teens into remaining abstinent. Further, US abstinence only programs reinforce antiquated notions regarding gender. For both gender but especially girls. Many of the abstinence only programs have religious undertones and place the responsibility for preventing premarital sex on the shoulders of girls. Or worse, they teach girls that if they have premarital sex they won't have the "gift" of their virginity for their husbands.
Attaching shame to sex is not the answer.
100% agree. Agree even more on the bold part.In the US, teen pregnancy is up and many have attributed this to lack of comprehensive sex education. Teens who are only taught abstinence and then still have sex will do so entirely unprotected. Or, they'll rely on rumor and second hand information about how to prevent pregnancy, i.e. pulling out, standing up immediately after, assuming one can't get pregnant her first time, etc. Or, they will "abstain" by remaining technical virgins and engage in other sexual behavior that is not intercourse and give each other STIs that way.
There's nothing wrong with teaching that abstinence is the 100% effective method for avoiding pregnancy because it's true. That said, abstinence only education courses in US public schools are shame-based and I think it's wrong to try and scare or shame teens into remaining abstinent. Further, US abstinence only programs reinforce antiquated notions regarding gender. For both gender but especially girls. Many of the abstinence only programs have religious undertones and place the responsibility for preventing premarital sex on the shoulders of girls. Or worse, they teach girls that if they have premarital sex they won't have the "gift" of their virginity for their husbands.
Attaching shame to sex is not the answer.
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
Yeah people always make fun of abstience, funny how when they go the opposite route and teach kids things from Primary School you end up with the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe and a generation of chavs raising kids on benefits.
Uhm, what?Yeah people always make fun of abstience, funny how when they go the opposite route and teach kids things from Primary School you end up with the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe and a generation of chavs raising kids on benefits.
I'd suggest you compare the pregnancy figures of, say, Fragistan(where sex ed is taught) and the US(where abstinance is grrrrrrreat).
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Uhm, what?
I'd suggest you compare the pregnancy figures of, say, Fragistan(where sex ed is taught) and the US(where abstinance is grrrrrrreat).
So you think that abstinence does not work at all then?Uhm, what?
I'd suggest you compare the pregnancy figures of, say, Fragistan(where sex ed is taught) and the US(where abstinance is grrrrrrreat).
Double post.
Originally Posted by Vuk:
So you think that abstinence does not work at all then?
Yes.So you think that abstinence does not work at all then?
I also consider it morally wrong.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Yes.
I also consider it morally wrong.
Funny, because I have proof that it does work. Moi! I have fathered 0 children, contracted 0 STDs, and am living a happy life. I see your point that it is morally wrong for me to make that choice though, as it is hardly fair to deprive women of all my Vukness Yes.
I also consider it morally wrong.
, but I dare say they will get on alright without me. :)In all seriousness though, are you really telling me that it is morally wrong for me to make that choice? Sorry bro, but it does work!
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