The Desire To Protect "Culture"

[HoreTore]

Agreed completely.

Also, the desire to protect a culture shows a complete misunderstanding of what culture is. Culture isn't static or final, it is constantly changing. In 100 years the culture here will be completely different, but it will still be our culture, just like the culture in 1911 was completely, but still our culture.

Trying to preserve it will only lead to stagnation and eventual ruin. Everyone who has tried have gone under, while those society who have been open has seen innovation and growth.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The OP should not treat culture and political systems as being distinct. The fact is that liberal democracy is a product of western culture. When it is exported to other parts of the world, it always seems to export western culture along with it.

Also, the desire to protect a culture shows a complete misunderstanding of what culture is. Culture isn't static or final, it is constantly changing. In 100 years the culture here will be completely different, but it will still be our culture, just like the culture in 1911 was completely, but still our culture..

Who do this "our" include/exclude?

[HoreTore]

The OP should not treat culture and political systems as being distinct. The fact is that liberal democracy is a product of western culture. When it is exported to other parts of the world, it always seems to export western culture along with it.

Take a look at India.

Who do this "our" include/exclude?

It doesn't exclude anyone, and it includes everyone who lives here.

[Incongruous]

Take a look at India.

I look at India and I see a nation obsessed with cricket, film stars and IT. When one goes the most modern parts of Bombay, it's hard to distinguish between western and indian forms of pop culture, apart from the skin tones, India is fast becoming Westernised. As Rhyf said, political structure and culture are not properly seperable.

Europe is under no obligation to take in vast numbers of immigrants who's arrival the native population was never given a just say in, if it went to vote, immigration would plummet, as is only right. When I'm in England I want to be in England, not some cosmopolitan's lala land experiment gone wrong.

[HoreTore]

We never voted for it? That's high up on the "worst lies ever"-list.

We hsve voted every fourth year for the last century. We have consistantly voted in parties who support immigration. Of course we have voted in favour of the immigration policies we have. It's not like its a party with low turnout who have forced their will on the rest, all the biggest parties in Europe support immigration.

There ism however, a very vocal minority. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of thte european populatiln has voted consistantly in favour of mass immigration.

[Andres]

We never voted for it? That's high up on the "worst lies ever"-list.

We hsve voted every fourth year for the last century. We have consistantly voted in parties who support immigration. Of course we have voted in favour of the immigration policies we have. It's not like its a party with low turnout who have forced their will on the rest, all the biggest parties in Europe support immigration.

There ism however, a very vocal minority. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of thte european populatiln has voted consistantly in favour of mass immigration.

The problem is, there has been a very long period where the choice was: "uncontrolled mass immigration" and "your local extreme-right nutters"; because, at least in my country, everything that resembled something that looked like saying that there may be some truth in what the extreme right-wingers are saying, was deemed "racist" by the "politically correct" or the "democratic parties". There has been no middle-ground on this issue for ages.

Which mean that as a party you either supported moronic mass immigration with no control whatsoever or you were put in the racist camp.

Of course, most people won't vote for the extreme right and don't want to be associated with racist scum; it's only when a substantial part of the population, being sick and tired of having been ignored on this issue, started to vote the extreme right out of sheer desperation and frustration, that the more sane parties started to think about maybe doing something that resembles a bit of control on the immigration and, oh no, perhaps expecting immigrants to do something in return for the € that are thrown into their direction.

Reap what you sow. The key is now not to fall into the opposite extreme of "you're all welcome, here's a house or a hotel room and a paycheck. Feel free to invite your 8 brothers and sisters and all their children as well, we'll gladly pay. Ignore the racists who expect you to learn the local language and get a job. They're idiots", which is the credo plenty of mostly francophone political parties over here are still following, together with the Flemish nepotist caviar socialists.

[Incongruous]

We never voted for it? That's high up on the "worst lies ever"-list.

We hsve voted every fourth year for the last century. We have consistantly voted in parties who support immigration. Of course we have voted in favour of the immigration policies we have. It's not like its a party with low turnout who have forced their will on the rest, all the biggest parties in Europe support immigration.

There ism however, a very vocal minority. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of thte european population has voted consistantly in favour of mass immigration.

Nice try, but no cigar, we have never had a vote on mass immigration and the issue has become (at least until recently) rather tasteless due to the media's obsession with the extremist views of both it's proponents and destractors, the views of most of the populace go unheard by the state and cowed by an intillectualism which seeks to undermine all opposition to it by constructing the apparatus of cultural guilt and moralism. Your eqation of a person voting Tory with being pro-immigration is incorrect, or for that matter voting labour with being pro-immigration (many of the working class are anti-immigration), I voted Tory because I abhor the champagne socilism of Labour more than washed down Thatcherism. Whatever you may think of the justification, it in no way implies I am pro-immigration.

This is going to be an issue of great importance very soon in European political culture (indeed it may very well already be), the realisation that the silence (relatively) of the major parties on the issue of immigration has created and will continue to create an undercurrent in society verging upon xenophobia and racism (the proper racism whish we no longer really get in the West, I'm talking Hindustani type racism y'know the BJP and Co.), then it will no longer be an undercurrent but a viable and popular be cultural alternative to the current open minded society we currently enjoy, and then there will be trouble, perhaps the type involving mass racist violence and the destruction (or hiatus) of political and civil order.

Man is very much an animal, and within his society he occupies a "niche" or societal role, when a foriegn group then is allowed to enter into his society and compete with him for that niche animal incticnts will come to the fore, and foreign cultural bodies unless they possess either the backing of those whom rule society or themselves possess that power, will be acted against, to the native multiculturalism or mass immigration can be viewed as a dismembered limb of imperialism to the effect that they will inevitibaly justify violence as being mora;l;y justified and ethically correct. One need only look at how civilians and other innocents are targeted in the violence commited by those who believe themselves to be striving for some form of liberation.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I agree with those that wish to protect European culture, I disagree with those that extend that philosophy to American culture.

[Furunculus]

the realisation that the silence (relatively) of the major parties on the issue of immigration has created and will continue to create an undercurrent in society verging upon xenophobia and racism (the proper racism whish we no longer really get in the West

THIS!

what is sickeningly funny is that it is the very people who have supported multi-culturalism along with high net-immigration that are DIRECTLY responsible for the growing intolerance in British society.

what is worse is that they exhibit ZERO self-awareness and no ability to empathise, traits that would allow them to appreciate that they are not typical, and that their actions are antithetical to a large part of British society.

if these idiots are truly comitted to seeing greater tolerance of ethnic minorities, and a reduced racism at the extreme margins of politics, then they need to IMMEDIATELY quite their cretinous harping about diversity and support a reduction in immigration along with a renewed emphasis in assimilation.