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Thread: The Desire To Protect "Culture"
Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Granted this goes both ways
Something to think about
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Granted this goes both ways
Something to think about
Agreed completely.
Also, the desire to protect a culture shows a complete misunderstanding of what culture is. Culture isn't static or final, it is constantly changing. In 100 years the culture here will be completely different, but it will still be our culture, just like the culture in 1911 was completely, but still our culture.
Trying to preserve it will only lead to stagnation and eventual ruin. Everyone who has tried have gone under, while those society who have been open has seen innovation and growth.
Also, the desire to protect a culture shows a complete misunderstanding of what culture is. Culture isn't static or final, it is constantly changing. In 100 years the culture here will be completely different, but it will still be our culture, just like the culture in 1911 was completely, but still our culture.
Trying to preserve it will only lead to stagnation and eventual ruin. Everyone who has tried have gone under, while those society who have been open has seen innovation and growth.
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Granted this goes both ways
Something to think about
Get off your high horse.Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Granted this goes both ways
Something to think about
There is no reason why any people should accept the influx of millions of outlanders who do not share their values, beliefs or even language. The current movements of people into Europe are the greatest since the collapse of the Roman Empire, both in numbers and also (probably) proportionally.
Since we don't need more people the incomers are not welcome if they want to cause social problems as well as stressing our public services
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Granted this goes both ways
Something to think about
Would you rather live in a Western culture or an Islamic one? Would you rather live in America or Mexico? Culture is worth preserving, especially if the alternative is far worse.Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Granted this goes both ways
Something to think about
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Granted this goes both ways
Something to think about
as soon as you get over yourselfIs the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Granted this goes both ways
Something to think about
One wonders what the reaction to this thread would have been if instead of asking whether culture should be defended, the contributions immigrants have made to modern European culture had been celebrated and applauded. I would imagine that the importance of "culture" would have been ridiculed and sneered at, as opposed to the resolute defence it has received in this thread.
Originally Posted by :
Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
I personally think it's Chinese Ultra-Nationalism.Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
Since we don't need more people the incomers are not welcome if they want to cause social problems as well as stressing our public services
Yes we do, as we're not having enough babies. And I thought us Europeans were meant to be good at sex.Since we don't need more people the incomers are not welcome if they want to cause social problems as well as stressing our public services
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
Would you rather live in a Western culture or an Islamic one? Would you rather live in America or Mexico? Culture is worth preserving, especially if the alternative is far worse.
False equivalence, as both of the latter have lower living standards and are less democratic than mine.Would you rather live in a Western culture or an Islamic one? Would you rather live in America or Mexico? Culture is worth preserving, especially if the alternative is far worse.
The OP should not treat culture and political systems as being distinct. The fact is that liberal democracy is a product of western culture. When it is exported to other parts of the world, it always seems to export western culture along with it.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Also, the desire to protect a culture shows a complete misunderstanding of what culture is. Culture isn't static or final, it is constantly changing. In 100 years the culture here will be completely different, but it will still be our culture, just like the culture in 1911 was completely, but still our culture..
Who do this "our" include/exclude?Also, the desire to protect a culture shows a complete misunderstanding of what culture is. Culture isn't static or final, it is constantly changing. In 100 years the culture here will be completely different, but it will still be our culture, just like the culture in 1911 was completely, but still our culture..
I've got nothing against culture. Some of my best friends are cultured men.
I say let Europe lose half its population, or three quarters. This will be far more sustainable. East Asian populations are dropping too. Nobody is contemplating replacing the shrinking population of Japan with New Guineans.
Originally Posted by Subotan:
Yes we do, as we're not having enough babies.
But why should a population grow for all eternity? Or stay at the exact amount it is now? Yes we do, as we're not having enough babies.
I say let Europe lose half its population, or three quarters. This will be far more sustainable. East Asian populations are dropping too. Nobody is contemplating replacing the shrinking population of Japan with New Guineans.
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
Would you rather live in a Western culture or an Islamic one? Would you rather live in America or Mexico? Culture is worth preserving, especially if the alternative is far worse.
Becuase these immagrants wont assimalateWould you rather live in a Western culture or an Islamic one? Would you rather live in America or Mexico? Culture is worth preserving, especially if the alternative is far worse.
Just like the Irish,Germans,Italians, Poles, Jews ECETERA ECETERA
You're also delusional if you think the culture of Mexico and America are seperated by anything but language
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
You're also delusional if you think the culture of Mexico and America are seperated by anything but language
Left southern Texas much?You're also delusional if you think the culture of Mexico and America are seperated by anything but language
Oregon, Ohio, Massachussets - these are not Yucatan.
There is a process of acculturation in the US, notably in the Southwest, where the difference between Hispanics and others is fading. Even outside the contact epicentre this is noticable. Latin America is starting to resemble North America at an even faster pace than the US is becoming hispanicised.
Sometimes I see videos on the web or on the news about some six lane highway, white-coloured SUVs, a large gas station, drive-thru restaurant, and I would've sworn it it was the US, and it turns out to be Colombia, or Brazil. Even the people look similar, and I don't just mean ethnically. Same short hair, same semi-baggy clothes, same body types - those typically American half-fit, half-overweight huge bodies.
I guess the same thing is going on in Europe. I went to Marseille some time ago and I would've sworn I was in Marrakech.
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
Becuase these immagrants wont assimalate
Just like the Irish,Germans,Italians, Poles, Jews ECETERA ECETERA
You've listed several different groups of Europeans migrating into a European-structured country. And the larger groups did indeed change the fabric of the nation, some for the better and some for the worse. Say what you will, but WASP culture turned this backwater into a superpower and delivered to it unheard of levels of wealth and prosperity, and its dissolution has largely underpinned our current failings. Becuase these immagrants wont assimalate
Just like the Irish,Germans,Italians, Poles, Jews ECETERA ECETERA
Originally Posted by :
You're also delusional if you think the culture of Mexico and America are seperated by anything but language
I think you're so enamored with your own self righteousness that you've lost touch with reality. You're also delusional if you think the culture of Mexico and America are seperated by anything but language
Culture is variable across peoples and nations, and not every culture is equal. Humanity has been so traumatized by the wars and genocides of the 20th century that it has become politically correct to assume equality not only in race, but in every aspect of humanity. While noble on an individual level, when this assumption of equality is then extrapolated to nations and culture, it becomes highly dangerous.
There are reasons why Mexico is different than the United States, just as there are reasons why Spain is different than Germany and Saudi Arabia is different than France. Those reasons are universally underpinned by cultural dimensions.
Have you ever heard of Geert Hofstede?
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
The OP should not treat culture and political systems as being distinct. The fact is that liberal democracy is a product of western culture. When it is exported to other parts of the world, it always seems to export western culture along with it.
Take a look at India.The OP should not treat culture and political systems as being distinct. The fact is that liberal democracy is a product of western culture. When it is exported to other parts of the world, it always seems to export western culture along with it.
Originally Posted by :
Who do this "our" include/exclude?
It doesn't exclude anyone, and it includes everyone who lives here.Who do this "our" include/exclude?
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
Get off your high horse.
There is no reason why any people should accept the influx of millions of outlanders who do not share their values, beliefs or even language. The current movements of people into Europe are the greatest since the collapse of the Roman Empire, both in numbers and also (probably) proportionally.
Since we don't need more people the incomers are not welcome if they want to cause social problems as well as stressing our public services
Indeed.Get off your high horse.
There is no reason why any people should accept the influx of millions of outlanders who do not share their values, beliefs or even language. The current movements of people into Europe are the greatest since the collapse of the Roman Empire, both in numbers and also (probably) proportionally.
Since we don't need more people the incomers are not welcome if they want to cause social problems as well as stressing our public services
The problem is not that Europe is not hospitable enough, the problem is that we've been way too hospitable for decades and are now feeling the backlash of this.
Holding the doors wide open for years and throwing money at people without really expecting anything in return, turned out to be a moronic idea. Even those who called the people pointing such a no-brainer out "racists" no longer than 15 years ago, now see and understand that (but most won't admit that they carry a huge part of the blame).
Originally Posted by Subotan:
Yes we do, as we're not having enough babies. And I thought us Europeans were meant to be good at sex.
We are overcrowded and have too many people for too few jobs. The state needs to be restructed and the retirement age needs to rise, we don't need more babies.Yes we do, as we're not having enough babies. And I thought us Europeans were meant to be good at sex.
Strike should try getting off his high horse.
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat:
But why should a population grow for all eternity? Or stay at the exact amount it is now?
I say let Europe lose half its population, or three quarters. This will be far more sustainable. East Asian populations are dropping too. Nobody is contemplating replacing the shrinking population of Japan with New Guineans.
Overpopulation and the graying of our population are the real threats for Europe. The fact that previous generations of politicians wasted the tax money of my parents instead of saving some, makes these problems potential disasters. Looking at our current generations of politicians, it has all the looks that these problems will indeed turn out disastrous for us. Legions of uneducated immigrants with no skills won't be the solution; in fact they might become the catalyst to set the disasters in motion.But why should a population grow for all eternity? Or stay at the exact amount it is now?
I say let Europe lose half its population, or three quarters. This will be far more sustainable. East Asian populations are dropping too. Nobody is contemplating replacing the shrinking population of Japan with New Guineans.
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Yes and no. As Horetore notes culture is not a static thing and is in fact constantly evolving, however, what culture is in fact from the point of view of society is a bell-curve where the majority of people have an expectation that society won't act in a manner antagonistic to their core values.Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Where there is a mistake is where you fixate on static features of society in its current form and try to protect them, such as banning Burkas.
Society is a battle for ideas and if you don't have confidence that a healthy society will prevail then its a lost cause regardless of artificial measures put in place.
There is nothing wrong with limiting the influx of people from different cultures in order that the bell-curve does not become too shallow, for that leads to social strife and a reduction in cohesion, regardless of how brown they are.
So no, I won't get over myself.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Take a look at India.
I look at India and I see a nation obsessed with cricket, film stars and IT. When one goes the most modern parts of Bombay, it's hard to distinguish between western and indian forms of pop culture, apart from the skin tones, India is fast becoming Westernised. As Rhyf said, political structure and culture are not properly seperable.Take a look at India.
Europe is under no obligation to take in vast numbers of immigrants who's arrival the native population was never given a just say in, if it went to vote, immigration would plummet, as is only right. When I'm in England I want to be in England, not some cosmopolitan's lala land experiment gone wrong.
We never voted for it? That's high up on the "worst lies ever"-list.
We hsve voted every fourth year for the last century. We have consistantly voted in parties who support immigration. Of course we have voted in favour of the immigration policies we have. It's not like its a party with low turnout who have forced their will on the rest, all the biggest parties in Europe support immigration.
There ism however, a very vocal minority. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of thte european populatiln has voted consistantly in favour of mass immigration.
We hsve voted every fourth year for the last century. We have consistantly voted in parties who support immigration. Of course we have voted in favour of the immigration policies we have. It's not like its a party with low turnout who have forced their will on the rest, all the biggest parties in Europe support immigration.
There ism however, a very vocal minority. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of thte european populatiln has voted consistantly in favour of mass immigration.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
We never voted for it? That's high up on the "worst lies ever"-list.
We hsve voted every fourth year for the last century. We have consistantly voted in parties who support immigration. Of course we have voted in favour of the immigration policies we have. It's not like its a party with low turnout who have forced their will on the rest, all the biggest parties in Europe support immigration.
There ism however, a very vocal minority. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of thte european populatiln has voted consistantly in favour of mass immigration.
The problem is, there has been a very long period where the choice was: "uncontrolled mass immigration" and "your local extreme-right nutters"; because, at least in my country, everything that resembled something that looked like saying that there may be some truth in what the extreme right-wingers are saying, was deemed "racist" by the "politically correct" or the "democratic parties". There has been no middle-ground on this issue for ages.We never voted for it? That's high up on the "worst lies ever"-list.
We hsve voted every fourth year for the last century. We have consistantly voted in parties who support immigration. Of course we have voted in favour of the immigration policies we have. It's not like its a party with low turnout who have forced their will on the rest, all the biggest parties in Europe support immigration.
There ism however, a very vocal minority. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of thte european populatiln has voted consistantly in favour of mass immigration.
Which mean that as a party you either supported moronic mass immigration with no control whatsoever or you were put in the racist camp.
Of course, most people won't vote for the extreme right and don't want to be associated with racist scum; it's only when a substantial part of the population, being sick and tired of having been ignored on this issue, started to vote the extreme right out of sheer desperation and frustration, that the more sane parties started to think about maybe doing something that resembles a bit of control on the immigration and, oh no, perhaps expecting immigrants to do something in return for the € that are thrown into their direction.
Reap what you sow. The key is now not to fall into the opposite extreme of "you're all welcome, here's a house or a hotel room and a paycheck. Feel free to invite your 8 brothers and sisters and all their children as well, we'll gladly pay. Ignore the racists who expect you to learn the local language and get a job. They're idiots", which is the credo plenty of mostly francophone political parties over here are still following, together with the Flemish nepotist caviar socialists.
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Granted this goes both ways
Something to think about
Is the biggest threat to Western Style Democracy
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people but most of you are smart enough to wrap up your child like xenophobic fears in enough flowerly prose to deflect such an elementary diagnosis
Get over yourself
Granted this goes both ways
Something to think about
Same assumptions, same answer. Has nothing to do with brown people. What makes you think it is? Now THAT is really something to think about
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat:
But why should a population grow for all eternity? Or stay at the exact amount it is now?
I say let Europe lose half its population, or three quarters. This will be far more sustainable. East Asian populations are dropping too. Nobody is contemplating replacing the shrinking population of Japan with New Guineans.
Well that's because both Japanese and Korean society are rather racist. Besides, there are calls for the Japanese to accept more immigrants, but it's a third rail subject in Japanese politics.But why should a population grow for all eternity? Or stay at the exact amount it is now?
I say let Europe lose half its population, or three quarters. This will be far more sustainable. East Asian populations are dropping too. Nobody is contemplating replacing the shrinking population of Japan with New Guineans.
Originally Posted by :
The problem is not that Europe is not hospitable enough, the problem is that we've been way too hospitable for decades and are now feeling the backlash of this.
And yet America has been extremely hospitable to immigrants for decades, including Muslims, and has seen great benefits come from this. The problem with the way Europe treated and treats immigrants is through our treatment of immigrants as Gastarbeiter, expecting them to eventually piss off back to their original country, as opposed to new citizens.The problem is not that Europe is not hospitable enough, the problem is that we've been way too hospitable for decades and are now feeling the backlash of this.
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
We are overcrowded and have too many people for too few jobs
Overcrowding is such a relative term. What seems crowded today isn't at all by Singaporean standards, and likely won't be either in 50 years or so. I also fail to see how reducing the labour supply is going to create more jobs for our workforce.We are overcrowded and have too many people for too few jobs
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
The state needs to be restructed and the retirement age needs to rise, we don't need more babies.
But people want to have their cakes and eat them as well. They don't want to retire later, or want to have more babies, and yet they want economic growth and higher living standards. The only way that's going to happen is through an expansion of the labour supply, which needs immigrants.The state needs to be restructed and the retirement age needs to rise, we don't need more babies.
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people
I Married a Trindadian. My son is therefore mixed race. Granted I'm convinced most of you just don't like brown people
She views herself as English, and our son is English. The colour of our skin is not the issue.
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
You've listed several different groups of Europeans migrating into a European-structured country. And the larger groups did indeed change the fabric of the nation, some for the better and some for the worse. Say what you will, but WASP culture turned this backwater into a superpower and delivered to it unheard of levels of wealth and prosperity, and its dissolution has largely underpinned our current failings.
The same WASPS whom spent us into debt and got us into wars of empire, clearly they know what there doing.You've listed several different groups of Europeans migrating into a European-structured country. And the larger groups did indeed change the fabric of the nation, some for the better and some for the worse. Say what you will, but WASP culture turned this backwater into a superpower and delivered to it unheard of levels of wealth and prosperity, and its dissolution has largely underpinned our current failings.
Originally Posted by :
I think you're so enamored with your own self righteousness that you've lost touch with reality.
Thank youI think you're so enamored with your own self righteousness that you've lost touch with reality.
Originally Posted by :
Culture is variable across peoples and nations, and not every culture is equal. Humanity has been so traumatized by the wars and genocides of the 20th century that it has become politically correct to assume equality not only in race, but in every aspect of humanity. While noble on an individual level, when this assumption of equality is then extrapolated to nations and culture, it becomes highly dangerous.
There are reasons why Mexico is different than the United States, just as there are reasons why Spain is different than Germany and Saudi Arabia is different than France. Those reasons are universally underpinned by cultural dimensions.
MOst of these differences can be traced back to money, besides I know the sons and daughters of these Mexicans immagrants will become more Americanized, like all the others. Sure they will change us a bit but thats always how these things workCulture is variable across peoples and nations, and not every culture is equal. Humanity has been so traumatized by the wars and genocides of the 20th century that it has become politically correct to assume equality not only in race, but in every aspect of humanity. While noble on an individual level, when this assumption of equality is then extrapolated to nations and culture, it becomes highly dangerous.
There are reasons why Mexico is different than the United States, just as there are reasons why Spain is different than Germany and Saudi Arabia is different than France. Those reasons are universally underpinned by cultural dimensions.
Originally Posted by :
Have you ever heard of Geert Hofstede?
No but a quick wiki search does not impress me, culture shock from Holland to England? Really?Have you ever heard of Geert Hofstede?
Originally Posted by :
Left southern Texas much?
Oregon, Ohio, Massachussets - these are not Yucatan.
There is a process of acculturation in the US, notably in the Southwest, where the difference between Hispanics and others is fading. Even outside the contact epicentre this is noticable. Latin America is starting to resemble North America at an even faster pace than the US is becoming hispanicised.
Sometimes I see videos on the web or on the news about some six lane highway, white-coloured SUVs, a large gas station, drive-thru restaurant, and I would've sworn it it was the US, and it turns out to be Colombia, or Brazil. Even the people look similar, and I don't just mean ethnically. Same short hair, same semi-baggy clothes, same body types - those typically American half-fit, half-overweight huge bodies.
I guess the same thing is going on in Europe. I went to Marseille some time ago and I would've sworn I was in Marrakech.
Left southern Texas much?
Oregon, Ohio, Massachussets - these are not Yucatan.
There is a process of acculturation in the US, notably in the Southwest, where the difference between Hispanics and others is fading. Even outside the contact epicentre this is noticable. Latin America is starting to resemble North America at an even faster pace than the US is becoming hispanicised.
Sometimes I see videos on the web or on the news about some six lane highway, white-coloured SUVs, a large gas station, drive-thru restaurant, and I would've sworn it it was the US, and it turns out to be Colombia, or Brazil. Even the people look similar, and I don't just mean ethnically. Same short hair, same semi-baggy clothes, same body types - those typically American half-fit, half-overweight huge bodies.
I guess the same thing is going on in Europe. I went to Marseille some time ago and I would've sworn I was in Marrakech.
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk:
I Married a Trindadian. My son is therefore mixed race.
She views herself as English, and our son is English. The colour of our skin is not the issue.
exactly.I Married a Trindadian. My son is therefore mixed race.
She views herself as English, and our son is English. The colour of our skin is not the issue.
even the nationalists here, myself included, tend to be civic nationalists.
it doesn't matter what colour a persons skin is, all that I care about is that they immigrants consider themselves British and attempt to comply with the public mores of wider society.
strike in his own topic, is once again conflating race with culture.
Originally Posted by Furunculus:
it doesn't matter what colour a persons skin is, all that I care about is that they immigrants consider themselves British and attempt to comply with the public mores of wider society.
The need not consider themselves British if they merely comply with public mores and get on with there own thing then society will get over it.it doesn't matter what colour a persons skin is, all that I care about is that they immigrants consider themselves British and attempt to comply with the public mores of wider society.
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy:
The need not consider themselves British if they merely comply with public mores and get on with there own thing then society will get over it.
Precisely. For me it is "I don't require you to feel any attachment to some artificial identity, all I ask is that you behave yourself and you are welcome to seek your fortunes here".The need not consider themselves British if they merely comply with public mores and get on with there own thing then society will get over it.
It used to be that Europe subdued Africa. Not anymore. The roles have been reversed. The Dark Continent is now swamping Europe, destroying our societies.
I TOLD YOU SO
I TOLD YOU SO
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy:
The need not consider themselves British if they merely comply with public mores and get on with there own thing then society will get over it.
granted, my objection principally lies with the obverse, immigrants who actively reject a british identity, as its both frankly ungrateful and an indicator of an unwillingness to conform.The need not consider themselves British if they merely comply with public mores and get on with there own thing then society will get over it.
not the kind of people I would be overjoyed to welcome to our shores.
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat:
It used to be that Europe subdued Africa. Not anymore. The roles have been reversed. The Dark Continent is now swamping Europe, destroying our societies.
I TOLD YOU SO
is that an obscure metaphor for gaddafi unleashing immigrants into the schengen area with the connivance of italy? :pIt used to be that Europe subdued Africa. Not anymore. The roles have been reversed. The Dark Continent is now swamping Europe, destroying our societies.
I TOLD YOU SO
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I supported immigration as long as we had an assimilation policy, and as long as we had immigration and not mass-immigration.
I think Andres is spot on, and PJ touched the topic too. Hitler and the brown-shirts very much did the western world a disservice (obvious reasons aside), as anything remotely close to their beliefs will immediately be tagged as racist/nazi/fascist.
I have said this before on this forum, but I will repeat myself. What has made the winds change politically as of late is (IMHO) the fact that we have a huge amount of people who simply can not get a job, while the bleeding-hearts left is still trying to defend the immigration policy with "we need need more people to work". No, we do not need illiterate sheep herders from Afghanistan, to think they will pay for my pension is ludicrous. On the contrary, they drain the national economy. You will not find a single economist these days who say immigration is profitable.
The immigration has also had a cold effect on the national atmosphere at large. Paying taxes did not use to be a problem, as it went to people who needed it. We were all raised pretty much the same way, we had the same beliefs, same values, same upbringing. Of course we should support those unfortunate. But money no longer go to the unfortunate. The system that was created to support a mother who had lost her husband now is used to milk cash from the state. I would happily help a woman who by no choice of her own is stuck having to support her kids. I am however less thrilled about supporting some African woman with a machine gun uterus, getting 8 kids who none of them pass elementary school, but instead are out on the streets vandalizing, having a "divorced" dad who lies around all day chewing khat between conceptions. "Divorced" in the sense of the law, not religion(!?).
We have schools in the ghettos where 9/10 kids do not finish elementary school with qualified grades - clearly we are succeeding with the second generation immigrants, and they will be an absolute hoot on the work market.
And no, of course all immigrants are not like that. But enough to start having an impact at society at large.
I think Andres is spot on, and PJ touched the topic too. Hitler and the brown-shirts very much did the western world a disservice (obvious reasons aside), as anything remotely close to their beliefs will immediately be tagged as racist/nazi/fascist.
I have said this before on this forum, but I will repeat myself. What has made the winds change politically as of late is (IMHO) the fact that we have a huge amount of people who simply can not get a job, while the bleeding-hearts left is still trying to defend the immigration policy with "we need need more people to work". No, we do not need illiterate sheep herders from Afghanistan, to think they will pay for my pension is ludicrous. On the contrary, they drain the national economy. You will not find a single economist these days who say immigration is profitable.
The immigration has also had a cold effect on the national atmosphere at large. Paying taxes did not use to be a problem, as it went to people who needed it. We were all raised pretty much the same way, we had the same beliefs, same values, same upbringing. Of course we should support those unfortunate. But money no longer go to the unfortunate. The system that was created to support a mother who had lost her husband now is used to milk cash from the state. I would happily help a woman who by no choice of her own is stuck having to support her kids. I am however less thrilled about supporting some African woman with a machine gun uterus, getting 8 kids who none of them pass elementary school, but instead are out on the streets vandalizing, having a "divorced" dad who lies around all day chewing khat between conceptions. "Divorced" in the sense of the law, not religion(!?).
We have schools in the ghettos where 9/10 kids do not finish elementary school with qualified grades - clearly we are succeeding with the second generation immigrants, and they will be an absolute hoot on the work market.
And no, of course all immigrants are not like that. But enough to start having an impact at society at large.
No economists agree that immigration is good? What? That's why the employers union here crave even more immigration...?
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