Specialised clan units not too effective

[edyzmedieval]

Is anyone finding that the specialised clan units are not that much more effective than their normal counterparts? I've done a comparison with regards to the Chosokabe Bow Ashigaru and the normal Bow Ashigaru in two different campaigns, used on rebels, and the difference between the casualties made is almost inexistent.

It seems that the main advantage is the lower upkeep and lower recruitment cost but this becomes efficient only when recruiting units in large quantities, the 50 gold difference between Oda Yari Ashigaru and normal Yari Ashigaru is far from a treasury breaker.

Thoughts?

[MCM]

The differences are small for any one unit, but tend to add up in the aggregate.

As for the Oda Ashigaru, I think the difference is quite significant. 50 koku is 20% of the cost of Yari Ashigaru, no? That's a pretty serious bonus, and I believe the Oda Ashigaru units are better (if I remember correctly). But still, 20% cost is more than an Encampment does (-10%) and almost as much as a fully developed Iron Mine (-30%).

Given how powerful ashigaru can be when properly developed, it makes Oda one of the strongest clans in the game if they survive the first couple turns (which they never do in my games). The trick is that high-figure units (ie, Ashigaru) benefit disproportionately more from upgrades, like +accuracy or +armor or +melee attack.

[Monk]

Given how powerful ashigaru can be when properly developed, it makes Oda one of the strongest clans in the game if they survive the first couple turns (which they never do in my games). The trick is that high-figure units (ie, Ashigaru) benefit disproportionately more from upgrades, like +accuracy or +armor or +melee attack.

I agree with this 100%. I've only seen Oda survive once, but wouldn't you know it? The one time I saw them survive they became so powerful they declared themselves Shogun. So i can completely buy that they've the potential to be the strongest clan in the game.

[katank]

Specialized units can be very effective. I find it strange that Oda bow ashigaru are stronger than Chososabe bow ashigaru in every way even though the latter is supposed to be the bow faction.

Upgraded Oda bow ashis are just brutally effective. I just smashed a Chososabe bow samurai stack w/ Oda bow ashigarus in a missile duel and it wasn't even close. With a 5 star ashi commander daimyo, my ashis were getting something like 18 morale which means they pretty much never rout.

Big fan of the Oda as their bonus essentially benefits 80%+ of your army. Shimazu bonus is also pretty good as you can afford to field more katana samurai who are very good at cutting through the ashi spam stacks of the AI.

[Gregoshi]

katank! Welcome back! Great to see you again. I hope you are here to stay for a while.

[Naughtius Maximus]

Clan-specific units not strong enough?

Good.

Specialized units that are too strong will affect play balance.

[Zim]

What kind of bonuses do the Oda Ashigaru? I was under the impression it was morale only (plus cost and upkeep).

Specialized units can be very effective. I find it strange that Oda bow ashigaru are stronger than Chososabe bow ashigaru in every way even though the latter is supposed to be the bow faction.

Upgraded Oda bow ashis are just brutally effective. I just smashed a Chososabe bow samurai stack w/ Oda bow ashigarus in a missile duel and it wasn't even close. With a 5 star ashi commander daimyo, my ashis were getting something like 18 morale which means they pretty much never rout.

Big fan of the Oda as their bonus essentially benefits 80%+ of your army. Shimazu bonus is also pretty good as you can afford to field more katana samurai who are very good at cutting through the ashi spam stacks of the AI.

[Cecil XIX]

Although I haven't done any real testing on it, I think the key to getting the most out of the specialized units is to let them affect your army composition. Try to find a way to get as much of your army as possible to benefit from it. This also encourages you play each faction differently, which is a real plus.

[katank]

katank! Welcome back! Great to see you again. I hope you are here to stay for a while.

Good to be back and nice to see many of the old Org regulars around.

What kind of bonuses do the Oda Ashigaru? I was under the impression it was morale only (plus cost and upkeep).

Oda ashis have +1 attack and defense compared with regular for both yari and bow (haven't played with anything else). Bow units also have +5 acc and +10 rld. These add up to fairly substantial bonuses and lets you win at parity fairly easily. Not to mention that you'll most likely outnumber them due to your cost advantages.