reemerging factions

[fightermedic]

i don't know if this is news to the team but just in case it is:
seems like someone has discovered how you can have more than the maximum 10 horde factions reemerge
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=442549

[bobbin]

Thats good to know, I must admit I was a bit worried when I read on the DotS forums that there was a 10 faction limit.


Thank you for the info!

[Skullheadhq]

Huh? Will there be re-emergant factions in EBII?

[bobbin]

Thats the plan, it hasn't been implemented yet though.

[Rahwana]

ugh, so now we can have Epeiros rose from the grave in 50 BC?

[Atraphoenix]

It is too early for such statements...
Personally I would prefer nomad factions at the first line....

[fomalhaut]

congratulations! you just painstakingly killed the last of this faction! now you can finally consolidate your holdings.. oh wait.. oh no oh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[moonburn]

if one could tie up the reemerging part to unborn family members it could be very cool and realistic (except for pontus or a keltic king in a non keltic land)

altough i would normally prefer that the reemerging would be a kind of migration so epeiros died and queen tuact (or whatever is the name of that illiryan queen) would seize power in segestica with all armies marked as aulletes/illirian joining her

then you killed the kh and bang thermon decides to have a more proactive stand in the greek world and the aetolian league becomes a faction

ofc thats just me and my stupid ideas :\

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

congratulations! you just painstakingly killed the last of this faction! now you can finally consolidate your holdings.. oh wait.. oh no oh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

They don't have to be numerous large armies. There could be several smaller ones scattered around to realistically portray resistance to the new occupier. If they should happen to regain territory than they might be back in business.

[fomalhaut]

i just have this feeling the AI will use these puny stacks to siege your new towns en masse. kills the atmosphere when some petty rebels can siege an entire city (my biggest issue with RTW, its Siege Total War and even war pigs can siege Carthage, Rome, Babylon...)

[bobbin]

Just to be clear, if reemergent factions get implemented it will be nothing like the "hordes" from vanilla, they will script spawned armies that appear in the dead factions homeland regions when they experience severe unrest.

[Arjos]

That would be a much praised RPing feature ^^

[fomalhaut]

what would their composition be? levies hopefully to represent the hastily gathered forces of the uprisers, with perhaps lower nobles as the leaders?

[TheLastDays]

Will every faction have the, at least theorical, possibility of reemerging?

[Horatius Flaccus]

If you look at the topic posted in the OP, it should be possible.

[bobbin]

Nothing is set in stone yet but no I imagine not all factions would get the ability, it doesn't make sense for factions who's ruling class was not indigenous to the population they ruled over, a good example of this would be Pontos (Persian dynasts ruling over Anatolians and Greeks).

[fightermedic]

doesn't that technically rule out half the factions ?^^
ptolys anyone?

[Rahwana]

doesn't that technically rule out half the factions ?^^
ptolys anyone?

kinda that...

[Arjos]

Well that's only right...
Imagine major revolt with people shouting: let's bring former oppressors back! XD

[fomalhaut]

well i mean, they get Alexandreia at least?
just as Seleukaia would be more 'loyal'...

just guesses, i don't think anyone in those regions would ever rebel back to the occupiers :P

[moonburn]

depends remember that the ptoloeis had their soldiers with them and that the natives where ill prepared for war so they could always rebound besides the places where most of the kleurocheias where at it´s probably the place where the reemerging would start so technically once you took over aygyptos you had 2 chances either destroy the kleurocheias and be deprived of soldiers or keep them receive soldiers and risk a rebellion

besides it would depend alot on who took over aygyptos if it was makedonians or seulekids the hellenes and thrakians and even gallatians wouldn´t have any problem accepting the new rule while if it´s saba or carthies or romans then the problem does show up since neither carthies nor romans would respect those foreigners in foreigh soil

[Arjos]

The Kleruchoi came from different parts of Hellas plus Galatia, also within 50 years iirc the Ptolemaioi's army was mostly composed by natives and Galatoi...
I can see the reemerging feature working for the western "barbarians", the nomads, mainland greeks, carthage and rome...

[moonburn]

actually arjos what you mean is that except for gallatians thraikians makedonians and hellenics weren´t all that diferent so they just took over the nobility role so by natives in 50 years time you mean the sons of the original kleurocheians wich where undistinguished from native egyptians except for their social standing wich also included priests and the old persian/pharaonic burocracy/administration

a bit like the seulekids started to be known as sirians and since they didn´t had that many distinguished caractheristics unlike gallatians with their 6 feet tall blonde hair and blue eyes and therefore where diferent for the outside observer

ofc thats just me making assumptions

[Ptolemaios]

The Kleruchoi came from different parts of Hellas plus Galatia, also within 50 years iirc the Ptolemaioi's army was mostly composed by natives and Galatoi...
I can see the reemerging feature working for the western "barbarians", the nomads, mainland greeks, carthage and rome...

Wasn´t the battle of Raphia in 217 BC the turningpoint at which the Ptolemaic army used great contingent of egyptian troops? I think until then at least the phalanx line was mainly composed of Macedonian soldiers. This would have been quite a force on which you could base a rebellion. But I´m not sure if they were so loyal to the house of Ptolemaios, or if they were more like mercenaries, fighting for those who had more money and the greater possibility of winning?

[Moros]

Saba for one actually did reemerge, though about a century after our game's period.

[Arjos]

As Ptolemaios said with Raphia I recalled the phalanx was formed mostly by Egyptians, also prior to that many Galatians revolted if I'm not much mistaken...
moonburn your point about assimilation is true though, but by reading the letters of those Kleruchoi they all sounded to me like people "forced" by possibilities and needs to emigrate, I can't say how much "Makedonians" they felt...

[moonburn]

well arjos gallatians where always revolting i mean getting payed to stay put is always better then getting payed to go to war and risk death ít´s a bit like unions nowadays they threat to go on strike to have higher wages either they deserve them or no and it´s better to get a raise then to be fired ... (wierd comparison i know )

as for the kleurichoi the ptolomaioi had alot of problems finding enough makedonians to fill in the hetaroi roles and most makedonians died anyway during the diadochi wars and makedonia was pretty much emptyed of proper peztharoi after alexanders conquest so the sarissa wielders where actually thrakians and hellenes and a few other more hellenized people (lydians ionians and such) so yes they resented the makedonian racism towards the other hellenes

and as i stated had the seulekids conquered aygyptos they probably would have continued the kleurocheias and those soldiers would serve the seulekids... once the ptolomaioi allowed the kleuros to be hereditary egypt became a kind of small feudal state 1000 years prior to the feudal age and the seulekids would prefer to not screw around since they needed hellenic "loyal" soldiers in the east and mantaining the former administration would have worked for them

also the seulekids also had a history of being more "tolerant" remember they enherit the old achmanaid dinasty laws wich preaches acceptance and tollerance so aslong as those troops where loyal the seulekids didn´t cared if they where karalians greeks makedonians thracians or whatever since the seulekids themselfs where halfbreeds themselfs beteween syrian women and makedonia manly strenght while the hellenes living in egypt and surrounded by angry natives needed the seulekids so they could continue to be the aristocracy instead of having their throats cut off in their sleep

[Skullheadhq]

Saba for one actually did reemerge, though about a century after our game's period.

But this shows factions did re-emerge in classical history.