Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

[DaVinci]

Hey LZ, seeing you currently here ... always a pleasure :)

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Hi, tried your mod a weekend a few weeks ago, as usual liked it, sadly no time to play now. :-)

A few weeks of releasing Panzer Corps, I hope you give it a try.

Cheers,

Tim aka LZ

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Hi DaVinci,

If you want.

Register here:

http://www.slitherine.com/sign_up

Sign in on the Panzer Corps Beta here:

http://www.slitherine.com/beta_test/panzer_corps_pc


Than mail me your registered name at Slitherine, so I can get you into the Panzer Corps Beta and you can give us your feedback.

[DaVinci]

Hi LZ, i watch the Lordz now go for WWII scenarios, interesting. I know the Slitherine engine/company, since they popped up in the middle of the 2000's years, and had issues to hold with the other engines in regard of popularity, but i heard it shall be a good engine.

Unfortunately, as for RL, i have only still time to develop/support the S2R+ mod, so any other engagements pc-game wise are impossible for me, as you know, i run an office of my own as architect/consultant.
But keep us informed about your dev-studio forthcoming, please. Fantastic story, that a former modding-dev-group went on to become a professional pc game company :)
However, i promise, whenever i have free time for such an undertaking of betatesting a title of your company, i'll come, ie. i might stop the deep modding of TWS2 soon, when a certain version/stand is achieved.
Btw., i also recommend to get GShock as beta tester, he is actually a professional tester, but i hope he'll stay for now in my S2R+ development ;)

[TylerX5]

What would be your thoughts on making cannons recruit-able to any faction with the right building regardless of their religion? Because in my experience it takes many hours to even get to the point where you can recruit cannons, but I have no desire to convert my clan because of all the initial negative effects

[DaVinci]

What would be your thoughts on making cannons recruit-able to any faction with the right building regardless of their religion? Because in my experience it takes many hours to even get to the point where you can recruit cannons, but I have no desire to convert my clan because of all the initial negative effects

Can you research this, historical backgrounds?
If the result is that all clans (or most) had field-cannon access in the Sengoku period, then yes, i'll remove the religion-requirement for the next version.
Theme is also interesting for ships with cannons.

[TylerX5]

I will try to find if there are a reasonable amount of historical facts that would support the cannons being unlock to every religion

[DaVinci]

Ok, thanks. It is mere a question if the clans used them commonly in the according period, not so much a question religion-wise, because Japan wasn't converted to christianity, only very small parts of the population was (vanilla reflects this 100 % wrong with the given vanilla design, S2R+ is adjusting this "feature" to a bit more realism, while i keep the option of catholic converted clans who possess a nanban trade port).

In principle all clans shall get access to cannons in S2R+ if the researchment shows that field (and naval) cannons were used widely in Japan during the Sengoku period.

[TylerX5]

A. The ōzutsu (大筒), a swivel breech-loading cannon, 16th centuryIn the 1570s cannons became a common part of the samurai’s armoury. They often were mounted in castles or on ships, being used more as anti-personnel weapons than against castle walls or the like, though in the siege of Nagashino castle (1575) a cannon was used to good effect against an enemy siegetower. The first popular cannon in Japan were swivel-breech loaders nicknamed kunikuzushi or “province destroyers”. Kunikuzushi weighed 264 lb (120 kg). and used 40 lb (18 kg). chambers, firing a small shot of 10 oz. The Arima clan of Kyushu used guns like this at the battle of Okinawate against the Ryūzōji clan. By the time of the Osaka campaign (1614-1615), cannon technology
had improved in Japan to the point where at Osaka, Ii Naotaka managed to fire an 18 lb (8.2 kg). shot into the castle’s keep.

B. pg: 29,
Mostyly on ships or mounted on cannons
Might want to increase the accuracy on samurai teppo, one story by a Duke Ferdinand describes a samurai using a gun for hunting geese, ducks, and pheasants which would clearly take a high level of accuracy
Pg, 31

Source A- http://everythingninja.wordpress.com...-ninja-things/
Source B- http://books.google.com/books?id=4Et...page&q&f=false

[TylerX5]

(Sorry about the few sources, but this what I've come up with so far and if you think it is insufficient I can do more research.)

From what I gathered it seems like you could go either way and either both decisions would and wouldn't make sense historically mainly because cannons were not used commonly as siege weapons but rather against soldiers, ironically they were more likely to be mounted on castles then shot at them.

But as far as "could" any clan have gained accesses to cannons it seems likely because closer towards the end of 16th century gunsmiths in Japan were catching up to Europeans and even in some cases were more advanced (e.g. some matchlocks crafted in Japan were designed in a way that allowed them to fire in the rain, such designs re unknown in Europe during the period).

And Japanese cannon technology improved greatly from around the 1570s with cannons shooting a shot of about 10oz to 1610s where they shot weighed around 18lbs..
If you believe the cannons in STW2 are somewhere in the middle of this with destructive power then I would say it would be justified to have them.

[TylerX5]

This is completely unrelated to several topics but about random unit spawning

I was about take North Santo (province north of the Takeda captial) from the Ikko-Ikki, and although I was in the province I was still a turn away from besieging the castle. Then out of seemingly no where an army of 6 fresh ashigaru units (3 yari and 3 yumi) accompanied by 2 fresh Murakami family generals (the clan had been destroyed for more then several turns by now) took the province and I was booted out for "tactical withdraw".

I'm guessing this explains how every now and then a "New clan has raised" but I do not think that was fair.

[DaVinci]

(Sorry about the few sources, but this what I've come up with so far and if you think it is insufficient I can do more research.)

From what I gathered it seems like you could go either way and either both decisions would and wouldn't make sense historically mainly because cannons were not used commonly as siege weapons but rather against soldiers, ironically they were more likely to be mounted on castles then shot at them.

But as far as "could" any clan have gained accesses to cannons it seems likely because closer towards the end of 16th century gunsmiths in Japan were catching up to Europeans and even in some cases were more advanced (e.g. some matchlocks crafted in Japan were designed in a way that allowed them to fire in the rain, such designs re unknown in Europe during the period).

And Japanese cannon technology improved greatly from around the 1570s with cannons shooting a shot of about 10oz to 1610s where they shot weighed around 18lbs..
If you believe the cannons in STW2 are somewhere in the middle of this with destructive power then I would say it would be justified to have them.

Your research-results are good enough, Tyler, thanks. I'll remove the religion requirement, and will look that they become not available too soon in the campaign (and heavily capped anyway).

[TylerX5]

cool, glad I could contribute to the mod in some small way!

but hey did you read my post about the random Murikami clan spawn?

[DaVinci]

cool, glad I could contribute to the mod in some small way!

but hey did you read my post about the random Murikami clan spawn?

Why "fair"? The mod shall not be fair ;)
In fact, this is vanilla basic and mod setting unrest model, but as far as i can experience, the sudden clan-uprisings have decreased in the S2R+ mod. If it still happens now and then, i'm rather glad about it, it's still a challenge feature.

[TylerX5]

Ok I think understand your point, and from a realistic view it does make sense to have unpredictable events happen like that especially in a time of civil war.

[TylerX5]

1. Have you thought about making it easier for generals to level up? I do not know at all how experience is gained but seems like barely any experience is gained for castle defenses and overall it just take forever to level up. I think the highest I ever got was a level 4 general

2. Also what's your opinion on weapon(max adds like 4 or more attack) and armor(max adds 4 or more defense) smiths? Does it reflect the overall strategy of the campaign map vs how that affects battles or is it a little stupid?

3. Any idea where you guys are with the intense game testing? I bet I'm not the only one who checks the forum daily for updates!!!

[DaVinci]

For now re 3.: Since the release 1.97, i work intensive together with GShock on improvements like

- Global balancing, means how are doing the major AI factions (major = playable). Goal is still for example to keep Shimazu, Oda, Mori and also Takeda or also Ikko and Uesegi in the game, as long as possible (this is one of my main personal goals, which i testify via Chosokabe H difficulty test campaigns, while i adjust several relevant code-values).
- Besides the goal to keep the campaign a financial challenge (nothing is more boring as to have infinite money available).
- GShock is focusing on Shimazu-playtesting (aside to several general observations which motivate me to look at certain very relevant things), just how he can make it as Shimazu player, and recently his experience is that the financial challenge is too high, and progress wasn't possible, but he tested there on VH. Now he shall playtest on H, and we'll see.
- At present a focus is again the battle/combat mode, we wanna improve some things there (realism backgrounds, but adjusted with gameplay backgrounds, the latter thing is more important).

Achieved by now, roughly:
- Added is the Oda-Tokugawa vassal mod, it'll be firm part of the mod, because this finally solves the Oda-vanishing issue.
- The global balance is greatly improved (major keyfactions in AI hands make it better than ever without that certain majors steamroll everything, but certain AI's still have issues, final adjustment is needed).
- The financial challenge is increased.
- The diplo-behaviour is greatly improved, factions trade with each other and keep alliances (of course backstabbing happens still).
- The general CAI is greatly improved.
- The battle mode challenge is pretty much improved, according to GShock one mistake in your tactics can lead to your defeat.

All this is done with the incredible help by GShock, who motivated me greatly to realise the current enhancements.

All in all, along GShocks experience with Shimazu on VH, the challenge in S2R+ is unparalleled. As said, at present (dev version) we have to look if i went overboard with the current campaign-challenge-degree, especially in regard of the cashflow model, easy adjustments to re-enable progress are possible though, but first i need his reports with difficulty H.

Release v1.98 earliest in one week, which is then to see as one of the last open beta versions on the way to final v2.0.

Hope this explains enough the current dev stage.

[Hister]

Thank you for heads up DaVinci.

Eagerly awaiting the next release - knowing your mastery it's hard to wait he he.

One a side note - I don't like how short distance armies can make. Any particular reason for this? Isn't the AI better off if it's reach is bigger?

You have made 2 different Yari Ashigaru unit types. Pure peasants and a more drilled steady army. It's a bit annoying to have the same name and same icons for both.

In my Date campaign I had a foe sneak in my territory but that army just stand there for many turns. When I went after it they started to retreat to their own province. They were standing next to farming building and haven't demolished it. Dunno if this is vanilla (since I haven't played much) or if this is introduced with your mod.

Having a blast otherwise!

[DaVinci]

Movement points are slightly reduced to slow down steamroller effects, ie. AI shall have more time to recruit.

The different Yari Ashi have not the same name, if you use my custom unit names (english language version is needed). But the same icons, because i have no fx artist, have no time to change tga's, if somebody volunteers i would be glad.

[Hister]

Aha for the movement points. Fair enough.

I have English version of the game language. I'm describing what I get with your vanilla mod - i haven't applied any additional naming mods. Those two different units are named exactly the same - playing the Date clan. Their respective stats are different but not their names.What name should these different Yari-Ashi units have?

Hope somebody volunteers for a 2D artist! I'll ask my friends.

[DaVinci]

What name should these different Yari-Ashi units have?

As Date clan you have 2 of them, yes. Other clans have even 3 (with different naming, one of these 3 is faction-specific).

The common forms:

Ashigaru - Yari | Inaka
and
Ashigaru - Bushi Yari | Inaka

The ladder is the advanced form of Yari Ashigaru (bushi = warrior). I believe i have listed this also in the Unit Guide thread.
If you don't have these different names, then it's somehow bugged in your installation.

Hope somebody volunteers for a 2D artist! I'll ask my friends.

That would be great. Note, i intend to use the Sengoku Cards mod by Ralendil for S2R+, so the different cards need to apply those as base.
Atm. though it is open if Ralendil himself has time and lust to provide the custom S2R+ unit cards, because there are some more to do.

[Hister]

I see - can't check if bugged or not bugged again for another few days until I come home. If I get any answers I'll let you know but don't hold your breath for it.

[DaVinci]

Hey Hister, in case you have fun to join the S2R+ dev group, entering the dev forum, apply: Settings/Permission Groups (need a PM from you when you applied that). No duties, just betatesting/-reporting of the newest internal version(s) is needed.

[TylerX5]

Hey Davinci what are your thoughts on increasing skill points to spend for level-ups(for generals, ninja, monks etc.)?

And possibly decreasing research time on some of the Arts?

[Hister]

Eha, thanx for the invitation Da Vinci - much appreciated! I can apply but I'm a very busy champ so if I manage to play the game it's only here and there so I wouldn't be able to post and playtest regularly or on demand. Don't see how that could be of much help to you but if you are fine with that I'm in.

Note that I won't be around until Monday next week.

[DaVinci]

Eha, thanx for the invitation Da Vinci - much appreciated! I can apply but I'm a very busy champ so if I manage to play the game it's only here and there so I wouldn't be able to post and playtest regularly or on demand. Don't see how that could be of much help to you but if you are fine with that I'm in.

Note that I won't be around until Monday next week.

Access just enabled :)
I'll also need somebody who can now and then moderate a bit. As you know my modding-style quite good (since we already worked together in 2008, or? was it 2008?), you are a good candidate, i guess you'll understand the backgrounds of the design without big explanations, when you play/learn the mod ( as my time is very limited, as you know, normally i'm retired from modding ;) ). No duties, just when you have time - also my plan is not to make this project still for long, i guess a final version is soon out (afterwards perhaps bugfixing/enhancements, if necessary).

[DaVinci]

Hey Davinci what are your thoughts on increasing skill points to spend for level-ups(for generals, ninja, monks etc.)?

And possibly decreasing research time on some of the Arts?

Research times are already vastly shortened compared to vanilla. Example: I'm playtesting currently the dev version, and i'm ca. 15 years in the game, now i have reached the horizontal mid line of all bushido and chi arts (of course, the upcoming arts need more time).

As for skill-points, no, i think vanilla is fine there, and it would make the mod easier, probably.
Edit: I haven't touched traits or any such files, there are mods out there of this branch, the ones who think they need that can apply them.

[Hister]

Erm, moderating like answering people's questions on this forum?

Edit: Just checked. The two different Ashigaru Yari units that I reported are actually the starting Ashigaru Yari units and the new ones I built hence the different stats.

[DaVinci]

Erm, moderating like answering people's questions on this forum?

Lol ... of course only if you know something, not now, not tomorrow, just in future, and naturally only if you like.

[Hister]

Ahaha, fine :D

Check the edit above...