Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

**vuvihu** · 04-10-2011, 22:43

1.

Thanks for playtesting. I would be interested how you get on with Oda on H/H, with mentioning the year etc. circumstances, can you reach the campaign goals? How are doing it the other major (AI) factions?
Important, because i would like to know, if my v1.1 changes (on parking now: making it slightly easier money-wise) is necessary or not for the general balance of the campaign on H/H. Also, please start a next campaign without the UAI, because my goal is to have it properly without that extra mod, and anyway including CAI files as well (one which gives recruitment priorities is in S2R(+) contained).

I made a peace treaty with saito in the 1st turn, then gradually expanded around the owari area. By 1557, I have 13 provinces, all around kyoto and owari (not including kyoto itself) plus those that origionally belonged to tokugawa and imagawa. I allied myself with hojo and takeda, who also control 7,8 provinces apiece. My vassal Sakai also have like 4 provinces above Kyoto. I control 5 outa 6 trade nods, captured the black ship and having net income of like 9k/year. I could easily win the campaign if I continued playing it.
Overall, I just find it just slightly harder than my Hojo campaign with S2R .311 cos the AI stacks now seem to have at least like several samurai/cav units rather than all ashigaru. Also, money is a bit easier now (dont exactly know why, probly cos you dont have many samurai units as before)

Else, i have capped Samurai recruitment differently from the basic S2R setup, what you get now is what you can get in S2R+. This design is in my opinion more realistic, than to have 10 Samurai types available, Samurai were just rare for the period and became more rare towards the end of the period due the losses*, so Ashigaru replaced their "positions", and also should prevent the human player from spamming them and exploit it vs. the AI which is steered to a degree by the CAI recruitment codes.

IMO, the cap is fine if you only have like 3-4 province and one stack, but as you expand and have multiple stacks, the fixed cap is a bit annoying cos you still only have 3 bow ashigaru, 4 bow samurai, etc to spread out between your stacks. As a result, if you have like 4 stacks, your army would mostly consist of yari ashigaru plus about 3 samurai units, maybe matchlock ashigaru as well cause they are fairly easy to recruit now.
Personally, I'd like the cap gradually increases as you expand (such as by building additional dojo or upgrading current ones, or by increasing prominent level so if you become the shogun you can have like 10 or maybe like 6,7 units of each samurai types)

**DaVinci** · 04-11-2011, 00:21

Originally Posted by vuvihu

1.
I made a peace treaty with saito in the 1st turn, then gradually expanded around the owari area. By 1557, I have 13 provinces, all around kyoto and owari (not including kyoto itself) plus those that origionally belonged to tokugawa and imagawa. I allied myself with hojo and takeda, who also control 7,8 provinces apiece. My vassal Sakai also have like 4 provinces above Kyoto. I control 5 outa 6 trade nods, captured the black ship and having net income of like 9k/year. I could easily win the campaign if I continued playing it.
Overall, I just find it just slightly harder than my Hojo campaign with S2R .311 cos the AI stacks now seem to have at least like several samurai/cav units rather than all ashigaru. Also, money is a bit easier now (dont exactly know why, probly cos you dont have many samurai units as before)

IMO, the cap is fine if you only have like 3-4 province and one stack, but as you expand and have multiple stacks, the fixed cap is a bit annoying cos you still only have 3 bow ashigaru, 4 bow samurai, etc to spread out between your stacks. As a result, if you have like 4 stacks, your army would mostly consist of yari ashigaru plus about 3 samurai units, maybe matchlock ashigaru as well cause they are fairly easy to recruit now.
Personally, I'd like the cap gradually increases as you expand (such as by building additional dojo or upgrading current ones, or by increasing prominent level so if you become the shogun you can have like 10 or maybe like 6,7 units of each samurai types)

So it seems playing Oda is somehow a help for the human player vs. playing other factions, as for the superior Ashigaru's including quite low costs for them.
Good point for the hint of the cashflow (less Samurai) - perhaps i have to increase the upkeep of some Samurai? And/or looking for other cost impacts during the advanced campaign?
And so i guess an as of yet planned update with slight reduced building costs of tier 1 buildings is a no go? Hm, i have had indeed a hard time with Shimazu as playtesting faction, the AI just beats me there.

**tan zhi han** · 04-11-2011, 18:19

As the Chosokabe I have 5 provinces and I am making 7000 a turn (minimum taxes from start - several trade treaties - trade ships on silk and incense). I am sitting on 30000 florins, and have purchased most buildings. The main reason I am not spending alot is because I haven't been recruiting troops. I am at war with Mori and another faction and the game is difficult. Several factions are larger than me and closing in on me.

The enemy has much bigger armies. I suppose increasing upkeep for samurai would do nicely. I think it would be possible to make a supply/manpower program for the game like that made in A Proper Empire Total War from ETW. The Supply/Manpower limited how many troops someone could recruit and had an increasing max and growth rate depending on the provinces controlled. I will post some images of enemy army compositions.

**DaVinci** · 04-11-2011, 19:05

Thanks for posting here.

Do you use other gameplay mods combined with S2R+?
Difficulty setting, and which year it is there?

As for the mentioned Supply/Manpower modding, of course that's interesting, however that would mean a longtime item to develop, and needs access to several files which are parts of trait files etc. and i think also esf. files.
Perhaps i'll look into this some time in future, but do not expect that very soon, as it would be a very timeconsuming thing. If you are somehow a modder or wanna become one, this could be your project :)

**tan zhi han** · 04-11-2011, 20:09

I use the several of the mods you list in the compatible list on TWC including visual/audio mods. Also, I use Realm Divide Mod and Cherry Blossom Character Skills Mod and Extended Campaign Mod (extends campaigns to 1640). No mods are conflicting with each other to my knowledge.

The year for this game is is probably 1553 or 1554. (Not at 40 turns yet)

And yeah, I realize it'd be difficult to do. Thanks for considering it.

**DaVinci** · 04-11-2011, 20:17

Extended Campaign Mod (extends campaigns to 1640).

I've read this makes anger the longer you play as for the expanded family tree, which is not really compatible with the game.
I also have installed that, but the version which ends at 1620, iirc..

However a development goal for me is to find a balance that makes a victory possible on H/H without the Extension mod, but using the Realm Divide mod, as i think there vanilla goes overboard with its extreme high aggression if this event occurs.

Edit
I believe i'll try an update that a. increases the recruitment costs for Samurai units, but b. decreases the construction costs for the 1st tier buildings. And no changes to the upkeep, as this can easily have huge impacts on the whole cashflow, there for could produce huge anger for the AI to develop their realms (for you as player as well, of course).
Btw., Chosokabe is i think, one of the most easy factions to play, as for the more or less isolation on the isle.