So it's official, southern France is rotten.

[Strike For The South]

I had a giant self righteous post and my compluter ate the bloody thing, cliff notes

France has recently taken on allot of poor, brown, and muslim immigrants

French Culture is superior to this immigrant culture, although that's a broad brush

The way these people are welcomed and assimialted into French cultutre matter to. In America crime rates are much lower among all immigrant groups and they are *gasp* brown people to.

All 3 of these things matter, let's not be infants about the issue, but let's also acknowledge they matter both ways.

It's not like before teh brownies came France was a paradise were all women were treated with the utmost chivalry and respect. Because that isn't true either

Also, in America if someone groped a women and called her a whore that person would be dropped by someone in the bar. I don't mean to go testosterone frontroom on everyone but that would happen. Add into the mix it's some spindly little derka derka and their are a few amount of people who would probably take a certain fun in it. Is French culture usually this passive? I'm just getting an image of a bunch of pasty artsy types crying into the cafe & crossicants....come on guys.

I cannot think of one single culture that was allowed to prosper inside another one. Minority cultures living alongside majority cultures always mean trouble. The only way for a minority culture to become accepted, is to turn itself into a variant of the majority one - aka integrating.

THEIR ARE JEWS IN THEM HILLS

[Rhyfelwyr]

THEIR ARE JEWS IN THEM HILLS

It's always the same side that uses goes CAPSLOCK first and its never the ones they say it is.

Other people can do that to...

A: I don't like the way these immigrants act
B: ZOMG RACIST!!!

Yay!

[Ironside]

It's always the same side that uses goes CAPSLOCK first and its never the ones they say it is.

Other people can do that to...

A: I don't like the way these immigrants act
B: ZOMG RACIST!!!

Yay!

Now Melendil probably knows more than I do, but I've got the feeling that those are people that was born or grew up in France. Hence immigrants are the wrong word.

Anyway the behavior seems to be "madonna or whore" behavior where the madonna is replaced with whore. I'm curious on why the behavior occurs. The feeling of ineptness leading to oppression of the physically weaker gender?

Any idea on how to stop the behavior? It will not only poison this generation, these people will have children on their own...

Simply chanting it's the immigrants fault and closing the border won't work and will rather invite to a rather messy and not really working "solution" (Jews and Romani issues has been "solved" this way for centuries) if nothing more is done.

[Fragony]

Any idea on how to stop the behavior? It will not only poison this generation, these people will have children on their own...

I most certainly don't you can't just change a mindset. But closing the borders for non-western immigrants will absolutely make the problems easier to handle. It's already too late for Southern-France it should be considered lost, there isn't anything that can be done about it anymore it will become a shariah enclave if it isn't already. Sucks to live there.

[HoreTore]

I most certainly don't you can't just change a mindset.

What? Of course you can. 1968 changed peoples mindset in western europe. We no longer consider it normal for a woman to stay at home, raise kids and care for their husband. Hitting your spouse is now considered horrible, as opposed to part of everyday life. Same for hitting children. I could go on all day....

[Fragony]

What? Of course you can. 1968 changed peoples mindset in western europe. We no longer consider it normal for a woman to stay at home, raise kids and care for their husband. Hitting your spouse is now considered horrible, as opposed to part of everyday life. Same for hitting children. I could go on all day....

Oh it's absolutely possible that a mindset is changed, take this Dutch election pamflet from the sixties (cause it's a election poster I guess it is ok)

EDIT: Removed poster depicting naked female. BG

Now they have respect

[Skullheadhq]

Oh it's absolutely possible that a mindset is changed, take this Dutch election pamflet from the sixties (cause it's a election poster I guess it is ok)

EDIT: Removed poster depicting naked female. BG

Now they have respect

Didn't see it, since the mod removed it, but I guess it is the PSP 'Ontwapenend' poster.

[Meneldil]

Didn't have time to reply earlier. I don't have internet at my new place, so I'm doing it from work.

First of all, I apologize for the big words used in the OP. I was quite mad when I wrote it, and the only way I can express madness in english is by adding a lot of swear words :D (Talking about that, I don't have any italian blood that I know of Louis. In fact I have no idea where my family's coming from and couldn't care less).

Secondly, as many of you have said, these people aren't migrants, but french. And even though it's mostly done by arabs, white people do it too. As sad as it is, I got mad with a former university friend of mine, for this very same reason. He's doing research in political science, petty bourgeoisie background, well educated and what not. But he lately became a huge brainless macho-male when it comes to women. When he started to ask to random girls in the street "Would you mind having sex with me?" I thought he went nuts and gave him **** for it. He said "I'm an epicurian, I love to enjoy life". I answered "You're a douchebag who acts like a wannabe gangsta idiot". In his case, I think the US gangsta rap he listens to and the porn he watches are partly to be blamed.

But, his case is special, and to be honest, most of our former friends have turned their back on him. Because he's a shame. Among the people we used to hang out with, what he does is seen as either stupid or disgusting. And so far, thank god, he doesn't call women "whores" or "sluts" when they don't answer.

Sad as it is, this behaviour is considered normal among a part of the population that's mostly made of brown people from northern africa. And I'm not even saying this is inherent to some "arab" or "muslim" culture, because it's obviously not. Louis is right when he describes it as a conglomerate of "values" coming from Gangsta rap, porn, traditionnal mediterranean machism, so-called urban culture and - this has strongly been overlooked here - racism.
This is why these idiots would only dare to ask a girl "Wanna ?" only if she's "white" (ie. non-arab). Because arab girls have to stay pure. They can't have sex without the family's (ie. the older brother) approval, and they certainly can't have sex with white people. Because that's dirty.

That women have to deal with this kind of behaviours several times a day is already outrageous. The fact that this is also part of a unconscious racial cold-war based onto principles directly taken from the 19th century only makes it worse.

Lastly, yes. It's a shame that people let this happen without doing anything. I felt this shame several times, when walking around with my girlfriend, or even with female friends. I'd like to say that it's because the odds are usually against me (what could I do, alone against a group of drunken idiots?). But no, it's not. The white majority is just crawling in terror. If some white-skinned jerk pisses me off (which would be surprising in the first place), I'll answer, and even fight him if needed. But if it's a black, or worse, an arab, I'll just shut the up and walk away while staring at my feet. Even if he's 16 year old and looks like a toddler. There's no explanation for it, but it's just how it goes.

[Fragony]

Lastly, yes. It's a shame that people let this happen without doing anything. I felt this shame several times, when walking around with my girlfriend, or even with female friends. I'd like to say that it's because the odds are usually against me (what could I do, alone against a group of drunken idiots?). But no, it's not. The white majority is just crawling in terror. If some white-skinned jerk pisses me off (which would be surprising in the first place), I'll answer, and even fight him if needed. But if it's a black, or worse, an arab, I'll just shut the up and walk away while staring at my feet. Even if he's 16 year old and looks like a toddler. There's no explanation for it, but it's just how it goes.

You know how it goes when you do anything, you always are the bad guy in the eyes of the political correct. The guys you fought will return with their friends and family and nobody is going to help you as the red machine will maul everything that gets between their comfortable moral superior bliss they preach from their 100% white neighbourhoods. It's the evil stepmom that only cares about what the neighbours think, what isn't 100% ok must go, that includes you

[Ironside]

You gave a perfect definition of a whore, congratulations.

Also: a key that opens many locks is a master key, a lock that's opened by many keys is a worthless lock.

And if it's a male? Then he's called a Cassanova or womanizer... :juggle2:

I most certainly don't you can't just change a mindset. But closing the borders for non-western immigrants will absolutely make the problems easier to handle. It's already too late for Southern-France it should be considered lost, there isn't anything that can be done about it anymore it will become a shariah enclave if it isn't already. Sucks to live there.

Not really, only closing the borders are the goverment way of saying that we have a problem and then leave the solution to the population. And that will not be a solution, rather the opposite. That's how you get the BNP style parties in power. And they don't provide a solution outside deportation of citizens or worse. And that's not counting that the issue is not about immigration itself (even if it has a strong influence).

And that won't become sharia enclaves, but rather ghetto hell holes.

[Fragony]

Not really, only closing the borders are the goverment way of saying that we have a problem and then leave the solution to the population. And that will not be a solution, rather the opposite. That's how you get the BNP style parties in power. And they don't provide a solution outside deportation of citizens or worse. And that's not counting that the issue is not about immigration itself (even if it has a strong influence).

And that won't become sharia enclaves, but rather ghetto hell holes.

Excuse for excusing the BNP, but it's the very height of logic that a party without solutions emerges in a country without problems. They do have solutions you just don't like them.

[Skullheadhq]

Since when does being an attractive young female mean you're a jew? And does this mean antisemites are homosexuals thus they're implying they're gay? But yet they hate homsexuals so they are self-hating? And since they wish the death penalty for homosexuals, does this mean they're suicidal? Arab logic is hard to understand for us outsiders.

[Banquo's Ghost]

So far, I have seen nothing yet in this thread that convinces me this is an exclusively Arab or Southern French problem. These behaviours are exhibited by young males trapped in the underclass of many cultures. Women would find themselves so abused if they walked through the traveller ghettoes of Limerick, the slums of St Petersburg or the drink-stained and neon-lit Saturday night high streets of Bristol.

Whereas there is undoubtedly an element of skewed cultural (religious) behaviour in the OP's example, it cannot be purely so. One would never find such behaviour shown towards women on the streets of Lebanon, Syria or Egypt* - excepting perhaps the direst of deprived areas, and probably not even then**. So it cannot be "Arab" culture. One would be unlikely to find such behaviour among the middle class suburbs of London or Dublin, whatever the country of origin of the people one meets, so it cannot be "immigrant" culture.

Apart from exclusion and poverty, I would advance one further observation that speaks to me about the undoubted problem we are discussing. Enforcement of standards.

It seems to me that these kind of behaviours are tolerated, rather than immediately stopped by law enforcement. This is multiplied greatly in regard to muslim immigrants because of the multi-culturalist viewpoint that they should somehow be allowed different standards to the rest of the country in which they reside. But this laxity stretches to all incidents of bad behaviour, it seems to me. Were they slapped in jail for a period - or, as Strike suggests, gentlemen allowed to defend a lady's honour without fear that they would be the one to be immediately prosecuted, one suspects the whole lot - brown, pink or variegated - would learn to toe the line sharpish. This is in fact what happens in their countries of origin, where expectations are very strict - they do not misbehave, because they would not be allowed to by elders or police. Of course, it wouldn't hurt for them to have a hard day's work to occupy their time too.

Purely anecdotally (which is what this thread is all about) I am reminded of the impeccable behaviour of my French friends' children at home and school. They respond well to a culture of firmness and discipline. They are polite, respectful and articulate. Then I see the hordes of French children on visits to the UK and Ireland and the repellant behaviour of these gangs of foul-mouthed, thieving little brats. Away from home, indulged by the feeble liberal tutors now charged with their care, they mutate into feral swamp-things direct from Golding's worst nightmares.

* My reference examples are countries where I have observational experience, or rather, my wife does.
** It ought to be noted that one can find bad behaviour in some tourist areas of these countries, largely (it seems to me) generated by the appalling behaviours of young women that encourage such disdain. "Whores" would be apt description rather than pejorative.

[Fragony]

It seems to me that these kind of behaviours are tolerated, rather than immediately stopped by law enforcement. This is multiplied greatly in regard to muslim immigrants because of the multi-culturalist viewpoint that they should somehow be allowed different standards to the rest of the country in which they reside.

I am really starting to like you. Not that I didn't already of course. Yeah, problemo #1 is the muticultural left. Kinda meant that previous post

[Louis VI the Fat]

** It ought to be noted that one can find bad behaviour in some tourist areas of these countries, largely (it seems to me) generated by the appalling behaviours of young women that encourage such disdain. "Whores" would be apt description rather than pejorative.[/I]

Whores?

Why are women whores when they seek some physical fun? For thrills, young men seek conflict, danger, drive dangerously. Young women for thrills engage in experimental sexual behaviour. 'Look what I dare'.
They are not whores. They are your daughters, your mothers, your sisters. And indeed they are those girls you sleep with - which makes you cool, but them a whore, despite you both engaging in the same act.


This much is true: there is no fundamental difference between the Taliban and the West. Women's rights in both are but a matter of degrees on the same scale. In the end they are always just a whore.

[Skullheadhq]

Whores?

Why are women whores when they seek some physical fun? For thrills, young men seek conflict, danger, drive dangerously. Young women for thrills engage in experimental sexual behaviour. 'Look what I dare'.

You gave a perfect definition of a whore, congratulations.

Also: a key that opens many locks is a master key, a lock that's opened by many keys is a worthless lock.

[Louis VI the Fat]

You gave a perfect definition of a whore, congratulations.

Also: a key that opens many locks is a master key, a lock that's opened by many keys is a worthless lock.

And another one for the 'See, it is not the Arabs. White men are the chauvinist male pigs'.

Has your 'master key' turned many women into whores lately, or is it out of spite that you can't get any women to have sex with you that you would describe them as whores?

[Husar]

Also: a key that opens many locks is a master key, a lock that's opened by many keys is a worthless lock.

While I would hold against Louis that men who seek that much fun aren't better or worse than women who do the same IMO, this is a completely worthless saying you pulled out there that borders on chauvinism.

[Scienter]

You gave a perfect definition of a whore, congratulations.

Also: a key that opens many locks is a master key, a lock that's opened by many keys is a worthless lock.

What now? This type of analogy is invalid dreck. "Virginity" is not a gift and a woman's reproductive bits are not a lock.

Sure, some guys want to marry virgins for cultural or religious reasons. Or maybe because they don't want their wives to have a basis for comparison in the sack. But saying a woman who dares to *gasp* enjoy sex with more than one partner is 'worthless' and that a man who has had sex with many people is a 'master' is a sexist and hypocritical double standard. When two people engage in something consensually, no one is devalued. In what crazy world is it okay for a man to have sex many women and then label woman who has done the same thing as a whore?

This comment makes me a combination of angry and sad.

Re: France: I've been lucky enough to not have experienced this type of harassment in the few times I've been there. I've gotten more negative attention for going running outside in the US in different parts of the country. I don't attribute it to any specific culture or nationality. I think it happens anywhere where women are seen as less valuable than men, or as sexual objects.

That point was about white homophobe misogynists who suddenly turn champions of gay/women's right's when they are complaining about teh Arabs.

I think these are the same people who try to hide their racism behind the guise of 'patriotism.' Because if you hate group X of people because you're patriotic, it's somehow ok!

[Banquo's Ghost]

Whores?

Why are women whores when they seek some physical fun? For thrills, young men seek conflict, danger, drive dangerously. Young women for thrills engage in experimental sexual behaviour. 'Look what I dare'.
They are not whores. They are your daughters, your mothers, your sisters. And indeed they are those girls you sleep with - which makes you cool, but them a whore, despite you both engaging in the same act.


This much is true: there is no fundamental difference between the Taliban and the West. Women's rights in both are but a matter of degrees on the same scale. In the end they are always just a whore.

No Louis.

I condemn the men too. This kind of moral debasement has its consequences for both sexes. I do not have to approve of it to respect women's rights. Men and women's rights are concomitant with responsibilties. They do not simply enable hedonism.

Feminism is not about having the right to debase oneself as a plaything for corruption and vice, though of course that right exists. Such moral choices lead to diminishment for all.

[Skullheadhq]

whore
   [hawr, hohr or, often, hoor] Show IPA noun, verb, whored, whor·ing.
–noun
1.
a woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse, usually for money; prostitute; harlot; strumpet.

What did you say, Louis? I think the dictionary disagrees with you.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Since when does being an attractive young female mean you're a jew? And does this mean antisemites are homosexuals thus they're implying they're gay? But yet they hate homsexuals so they are self-hating? And since they wish the death penalty for homosexuals, does this mean they're suicidal? Arab logic is hard to understand for us outsiders.

You seem to understand the misogyny of the creeps in southern France perfectly well;

Also: a key that opens many locks is a master key, a lock that's opened by many keys is a worthless lock.

It is correct that the one culture I spoke of earlier is not the only one that is deeply misogynist; gangster rap and college fraternity brothers in the US both come to mind.

It seems to me that it is the culture of certain North African/Arabic immigrants behind the increase in treating women like objects.

As Banquo pointed out, their behavior is more tolerated. Such behavior by others was not in the past.

So the those in charge must decided whether to bite the bullet and disregard the politically correct, multicultural thinking, or watch as treatment of women worsens.

CR

[Jaguara]

Also, in America if someone groped a women and called her a whore that person would be dropped by someone in the bar. I don't mean to go testosterone frontroom on everyone but that would happen.

As I was dealing with my rage thinking about the situation, I had the thought that if I was witness to sort of thing, that this is how I might react. At the very least, I would confront the jackass(es).

I got to wondering how, if it is that bad, that there are not yet squads of French guys prowling around for the pricks. But Louis' post answers some of this, namely that it is more complex and perhaps that this is the prevaling attitude in the area.

[Fragony]

THEIR ARE JEWS IN THEM HILLS

Don't worry they will be leaving in droves once the hills get enriched, no idea why