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Thread: Gun Factory

  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    OK...just went to the community forum for the first time in quite a while, and saw that some people still believe there is such a thing as a Gun Factory (a separate building that produces Portugese muskets).

    IMO this building was dropped, much like the Father Visitor character. Only by creating the Cathedral can you make Papist muskets.

    I've challenged others in the past to show me an actual screen shot of one, so any takers?

    pls don't quote the tech tree, it's as flawed as the State of Florida's election process

    P.S.: this is strictly a friendly challenge, don't get upset
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  2. #2

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    I'm convinced I built one in Hitachi ages ago.

    Remember, you need
    A) A citadel in the province
    B) Christianity
    C) An armoury in the province
    D) A port and trading post in the province

    This combination can be hard to achieve, so actually building a gun factory can be quite difficult. By the time I have built up the infrastructure to build one, I can usually get Dutch traders and get guns from them.

    I also remember than the Gun Factory does not give any honour bonus to gun units as stated in the tech tree. If it did, it might just be worth building if you have nothing better to do.

    [This message has been edited by Rob (edited 11-15-2000).]

  3. #3
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    yes there is a gun factory available, at least in the u.s. version.
    but it's a bit like mine-complexes, it's often not worth the time and funding. i often like to just wait out the years' difference and get guns from the dutch so i can escape christianity.

  4. #4

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    Mine complexes not worth it? No way! I almost always build mine complexes when I get the chance, at least in gold/silver provinces. They pay for themselves within 2 years in gold provinces, 3 in silver provinces and 5 in copper. That's a pretty good rate of return compared to ports and trading posts which always take between 5-8 years to pay off, or farming improvements which probably take even longer.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    Remember the challenge boys...I want some form of in-game pic.

    Why build a Gun Factory when you get muskets once the Cathedral is finished? It's redundant!
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  6. #6

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    What if you don't want the Cathedral? Build a Gun Factory and then you can have monks and muskets!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    Ah, but for Portugese guns you must convert... sorry wrong answer LOL

    Really I'm just wantin' to see what this gun factory is Rob. It does not exist in my game, I've tried everything to make one- no dice I don't believe it exists
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  8. #8
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    BS- You believe in UFOs yet gun factories continue to elude you....hmm....


  9. #9
    Barbarian of the north Member Magraev's Avatar
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    Rob - remember to include the cost of a bigger castle (fortress) for the return of a mine complex. It takes way more than 5 years to repay a copper mine complex (maybe like 15-20 - do the math).

    And yes you can build a gun factory - there's just no point unless you're a dedicated papist. You need a citadel, a port, a trading post (portugese OR dutch go figure) and an armory.
    Nope - no sig what so ever.

  10. #10
    Member Member hecose's Avatar
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    The gun factory does exist in STW. Visit the following webpage to see screenshots and also to download a saved game in which I built one in Aki.

    The requirements to build a gun factory are: citadel, Portugese/Dutch trading post, armoury. However, I don't see any advantage in building it. My musketeers don't get extra honour. So, basically a Dutch trading post would do.
    http://hecose.tripod.com

    By the way, this is not a fan site. It's just one (1) page I've created to post some information about the gun factory.

  11. #11

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    Good point Magraev.

    Total cost of port & trading post is:

    500 for castle
    1000 for large castle
    1500 for port
    1000 for trading post
    Total cost : 4000 koku

    Cost of Mine complex:
    500 for castle
    1000 for large castle
    1500 for fortress
    1000 for mine
    1000 for mine complex
    Total cost : 5000 koku

    The trading post costs 4000 koku and generates AT MOST 400 koku per year.

    Mine complex costs 5000 koku and generates AT LEAST 400 koku per year in copper provinces, 800 koku per year in silver and 1200 koku per year in gold.

    That is STILL a substantially higher rate of return.

  12. #12
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Well I can see the point in mining complexes, but youre missing the more strategic value of ports.
    A mining complex, for all it's expense, will not allow you to shift armies across the map, nor will it enable guns later. It's a far better value to build a port or ports and then a mining complex if one has the spare time/money to do it with.

  13. #13
    Provost Senior Member Nelson's Avatar
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    hecose, raising teppo in Owari or Tosa will get them the ashigaru +1 honor bonus.
    Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like bananas.

  14. #14

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    Obviously ports are important for strategic purposes. It is not an 'either-or' question. I was merely responding to an earlier post that suggested mine complexes were of little or no value.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    Thanx Hecose...

    Just to clarify, it appears you built a Dutch trading post, not a Portuguese one, is this true? If so, why the gun factory?

    Since I posted this I've had chance to go test, and lo-n-behold I made one!!!
    Can't thank you guys enuff for forcing me to eat crow, in this case I don't mind one bit

    P.S. I did it with a Portuguese trading post province too. The only stupid thing I see is that by making the trading post the game automatically labels me a christian, so hell I might as well wait for the Dutch! This feature must have been added in case the AI already had built the Cathedral, and you just had to have muskets before the Dutchmen arrived. Like how in the hell are you goin to have enuff koku to build all the infrastructure, let alone all that build time, before they arrive!

    [This message has been edited by The Black Ship (edited 11-16-2000).]
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  16. #16
    Member Member hecose's Avatar
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    The Black Ship,

    In that game, I have conquered all of Japan except for one province before I started building the gun factory. I was building it just for the heck of it. So I didn't really pay attention to whether I was trading with the Portugese or the Dutch. :-P That's why I am also not too sure about the requirements. I wonder whether there's some undocumented requirement which I happened to be lucky enough to fulfill without realising it. E.g. gun factories can only be built after a certain year. Something like that.

    Anyway, I don't see much point in building a gun factory. This is the only game I have ever built one. Usually I trade with the Portugese and then built 6 churches + 1 cathedral to get musketeers. Else I'll just wait for the Dutch. Somewhere in the manual it says you can train musketeers cheaper with a gun factory, but I have not observed that happening in the game. (actually I haven't really checked) Has anyone noticed?

    Nelson,

    Thanks for the tip. However both Owari & Tosa don't have iron sand deposits. So I can't build a gun factory (which needs an armoury) there. But indeed I can build trading posts there to train gunners.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    Hecose,

    read my edited reply...and thanks again for the motivation
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  18. #18

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    The point is this:
    You could go Christian, build a gun factory, then revert to Buddhism, by building a temple. Your gun factory would continue to produce muskets.

    I wonder if the cathedral still works if you revert to Buddhism? I seem to remember a long thread or two over at the community forum which came to the conclusion that the whole Christianity thing was buggy as hell.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    Right you are Rob , you can convert back and forth without any penalties, other than loyalty. Cathedrals will still provide a new-found Buddhist daimyo extra koku too... seems totally wrong doesn't it but it's true
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  20. #20

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    Like I said, buggy as hell. The whole Christianity system seems a bit strange. Obviously it underwent some last-minute changes (including the removal of the Father Visitor) but these resulted in the whole thing being messed up.

    We await correction of this in a patch

  21. #21
    Barbarian of the north Member Magraev's Avatar
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    Rob - just to wrap up...

    I agree with you that mine complexes are worth having for gold and silver. Not so sure about copper though.

    If you set out to build a mine complex in a copper region with no pre built buildings it will take 86 seasons for the investment to pay off if you figure 100 koku pr season for income + 36 seasons build time. That's a long time to wait.

    It will take 53 seasons to repay a gold mine complex, and 61 to repay a silver. Offcourse you can use the region for other buildings, withch makes it more worthwile to spend the koku on castles.

    Just adding pointless numbers
    Nope - no sig what so ever.

  22. #22
    Member Member Tenchimuyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by The Black Ship:
    [B]Ah, but for Portugese guns you must convert... sorry wrong answer LOL[/QUOTE]

    Damn it, why don't we just kidnap one of those papist yokes and force the fellow to make us them fire shooting sticks by tickle his feet. Well ain't that something!:mad


    [This message has been edited by Tenchimuyo (edited 11-16-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Tenchimuyo (edited 11-16-2000).]
    A great warrior rarely reveal his true skills....

  23. #23
    Member Member BanzaiZAP's Avatar
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    One thing you guys are forgetting about your "cost" comparisons: certain of those items are in both lists, and can be crossed off (subtracting "x" from both sides of the equation). Also, many of the required items are things you are going to want anyway. After all, there are many reasons to have a citadel, not just gun factories. Likewise, you're going to put up an armory, regardless of whether or not you're getting guns. Ditto for the mine complexes - I'm going to need fortresses, mining or no mining! Seems redundant to factor in the cost of something that you're going to be building anyway.

    -- B)

  24. #24
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Well building fortresses is an expensive endeavor, and most people cant afford to build them in provinces that dont have the most benfits.
    I would rather build a fortress in a province that allows an armory and some kind of troop bonus, and with port (Mori's starting kingdom comes to mind) rather than in some bumpkin province that has poor farming and a one mining opportunity. So you're not going to "build one anyway", at least not in every province.

  25. #25
    Member Member Sengoku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by BanzaiZAP:
    One thing you guys are forgetting about your "cost" comparisons: certain of those...

    -- B)
    [/QUOTE]

    I think it would seem a much more worthwhile investment if the Gun Factory actually gave something useful, such as a *real* weapon upgrade (i.e. not just the Swordsmith which improves only melee mode). The Gun Factory takes a fair time to build.


  26. #26
    Member Member Randy the first's Avatar
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    In my instructions it say "Once built the cost of training gun men is reduced."
    But the price has stayed the same
    125 for arquebusiers and 175 for musketeers.

  27. #27
    Member Member Tenchimuyo's Avatar
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    c'mon! I build it all the time.

    A great warrior rarely reveal his true skills....

  28. #28
    Member Member ingram77331's Avatar
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    if the price of guns doesn't go down whats the point of building a factory.
    My webpages are "www.geocities.com/77331" and "www.geocities.com/adventist2002

  29. #29
    Member Member Yoko Kono's Avatar
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    Building a gun factory allows the province to produce arqubusiers and musketeers of +1 Honor
    You require a dutch or portuguese trading post and a citadel and armoury in the province

    *Note*
    Building a Cathedral before or after a gun factory negates its +1 Honor effect, possibly a bug, but this does mean ALL your trading posts can produce muskeeters

  30. #30
    Member Member Koga No Goshi's Avatar
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    I was just about to whip up a screenshot because I had the option to build gun factories in like 4 of my coastal provinces as Hojo... then just remembered I deleted that savegame because all the enemy daimyo died and it was all ronin on the map.

    As far as I know, gun factory becomes available mostly after accepting Portuguese deal. I'm sure it's linked to certain castle size, etc., but I haven't paid close attention so I can't verify or dispute what others have said about requirements, I Just know it pops up in my build menu a lot. The advantage of gun factory is that it lets you reject Christianity and still keep guns. In other words, you could have a Portuguese trading post and a church in a province, build the gun factory, and then build a Buddhist Temple and still keep the guns while getting rid of Christianity. Isn't this right, everyone? I know I've totally gotten rid of Christian status before, and I think that's how you do it.



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    Koga no Goshi

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    Koga no Goshi

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