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  1. #1

    Default Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Ever seen/read testimony from eye witnesses in court? The accounts are often at odds with one another and with independently measurable facts. This is especially true in confusing/charged situations. Innacuracies -- even gross ones -- cannot be assumed to be the result of purposeful evasion or prevarication.
    Ever seen a videotape/DVD? Or do you think they used 4 helicopters to fly in one guy with a broken helmet cam? How long time do you think it takes to debrief US most highly trained team, several days?



    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxfetish View Post
    First false information meant LIES!
    Now spin means LIES!

    If you want to accuse someone of lying, could you point out the lies, rather than the things that are not necessarily lies?

    Ajax
    I thought I had pointed out the lies. I can assure you that there are more spin doctors involved in this operation than guys with guns.

    As someone mentioned - Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Yet a majority of Fox viewers years afterwards thought it had. Spin? False info soon corrected? Lies? You must understand what the spin doctors understands, the majority of the population see a headline and take it to their hearts and minds, they do not go out on the internet and search for the truth.

    All the world around headlines said OBL hid behind a woman, do you think this is because a reporter misheard a member of the assassination squad? Or do you think that somewhere someone thought it would be a good idea to print this, not necessarily having honesty as top priority?

    PJ, I did not say that the US government was lying - that is your guess. I simply said that somewhere in the chain between operatives on the field and headlines around the world someone had an agenda.

    As to your self-acclaimed experience of AARs from what I falsely or not assume is hobby reading, I really can not be bothered.
    Few are born with it, even fewer know what to do with it.

  2. #2
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post
    I thought I had pointed out the lies. I can assure you that there are more spin doctors involved in this operation than guys with guns.

    As someone mentioned - Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Yet a majority of Fox viewers years afterwards thought it had. Spin? False info soon corrected? Lies? You must understand what the spin doctors understands, the majority of the population see a headline and take it to their hearts and minds, they do not go out on the internet and search for the truth.

    All the world around headlines said OBL hid behind a woman, do you think this is because a reporter misheard a member of the assassination squad? Or do you think that somewhere someone thought it would be a good idea to print this, not necessarily having honesty as top priority?
    I'm assuming miscommunication somewhere along the lines, possibly reinforced by the desire for a positive spin. That seems most consistent with the swift correction. I'm still not sure what lies you have identified, or who you think is doing the lying. Some amorphous 'them', apparently.

    Ajax

    "I do not yet know how chivalry will fare in these calamitous times of ours." --- Don Quixote
    "I have no words, my voice is in my sword." --- Shakespeare
    "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." --- Jack Handey

  3. #3

    Default Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxfetish View Post
    I'm assuming miscommunication somewhere along the lines, possibly reinforced by the desire for a positive spin. That seems most consistent with the swift correction. I'm still not sure what lies you have identified, or who you think is doing the lying. Some amorphous 'them', apparently.

    Ajax
    I would suggest you re-read what I have written in my last posts.

    What you deem apparent really has very little to do with what I have written.

    Shibumi
    Last edited by Shibumi; 05-06-2011 at 00:46. Reason: forgot to add my name after my waste of text
    Few are born with it, even fewer know what to do with it.

  4. #4
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post
    I would suggest you re-read what I have written in my last posts.

    What you deem apparent really has very little to do with what I have written.

    Shibumi
    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi's previous post
    Or do you think that somewhere someone thought it would be a good idea to print this, not necessarily having honesty as top priority?

    . . .

    somewhere in the chain between operatives on the field and headlines around the world someone had an agenda.
    That sounds pretty amorphous to me. Care to make it more specific?

    Ajax

    "I do not yet know how chivalry will fare in these calamitous times of ours." --- Don Quixote
    "I have no words, my voice is in my sword." --- Shakespeare
    "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." --- Jack Handey

  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 05-06-2011 at 00:52.
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    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  6. #6

    Default Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post
    PJ, I did not say that the US government was lying - that is your guess. I simply said that somewhere in the chain between operatives on the field and headlines around the world someone had an agenda.
    I'll refer you to your own post, #242.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi
    Washington lied their tongues out. Anyone surprised?
    From other posts, I can assume you're from somewhere in Scandinavia? In the English language, it is commonly understood that "Washington" implies the US government. Example.

    Did you mean the state of Washington? The Washington DC city council? The Washington Post? George Washington?


    As to your self-acclaimed experience of AARs from what I falsely or not assume is hobby reading, I really can not be bothered.
    My post wasn't meant for your entertainment.
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 05-06-2011 at 00:57.

  7. #7
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post
    Ever seen a videotape/DVD? Or do you think they used 4 helicopters to fly in one guy with a broken helmet cam? How long time do you think it takes to debrief US most highly trained team, several days?
    Actually, it's now reported that the soldiers' video feeds were killed during the raid. Looks like the team was doing as little broadcasting as possible. Radio silence and all of that. So unless their video was stored locally, there may be very limited footage of the raid itself.

    Furthermore it appears that the helicopters were some sort of stealth technology, based on the fuselage, eyewitnesses and the rotor of the one that was trashed. Locals didn't hear much until the choppers were right on top of them. If you've been around normal helis, you know they are insanely loud.

    Last interesting detail -- from when the raid began until the helis pulled out, power went out in the city and all cells died. Looks like our patriotic geeks have been up to good works. I'm beginning to appreciate what various SEALs mean when they keep talking about what a broad-based team effort this was.
    Last edited by Lemur; 05-06-2011 at 03:54.

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