Osama Bin Laden is Dead

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Fragony, the amount of neologisms you create is proportional to the amount of paranoid nonsense you post here.



Wow, and yet it has several times.



Okay, let's say there are maybe, maybe 400 people protesting like this. In, for example, the Netherlands. Musllims constitute about 5% of the population (according the CBS/Statistics Netherlands). That's around 340.000 Muslims. 400 divided by 340.000 is about 0.0012 percent of the Dutch Muslim population.

Yep, there's a problem with Islam. Obviously. Statistics are just "Islamphile" propaganda!

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.....

[Lemur]

Since some news outlets and commentators are still pushing the narrative that we have torture, beautiful torture to thank for catching OBL, this interview with a military interrogator caught my eye:

A top United States interrogator in Afghanistan says that torture played no role in locating Osama bin Laden, and that claims to the contrary by former Bush administration officials recently is “propaganda [that] degrades our intelligence operations more than any other factor I can think of.”

Such talk also creates blowback — unintended consequences — that can be deadly, he added in an interview. “Simply the idea of our interrogators using torture or coercion recruits jihadists, facilitators, suppliers, supporters, and even suicide bombers, against us and our allies,” he said.

The man, who can’t be named for security reasons, has nearly two decades of experience as a military interrogator and Human Intelligence (HUMINT) specialist. He interrogated suspected high-value targets at Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, and Afghanistan, where he is currently stationed.

“Listen,” he said, “waterboarding and/or other coercive techniques did nothing to contribute to our attempts to track down UBL (Usama bin Laden). What did succeed was weeks, months and years of diligent, laborious, and dedicated work – all within the bounds of legal and ethical boundaries….No torture, no waterboarding, no coercion – nothing inhumane is considered a useful tool in our work.”

On the subject of blowback, he continued: "I cannot even count the amount of times that I personally have come face to face with detainees, who told me they were primarily motivated to do what they did, because of hearing that we committed torture. Even the rumor of torture is enough to convince an army of uneducated and illiterate, yet religiously motivated young boys to strap bombs to their chests and blow themselves up while killing whoever happens to be around – police, soldiers, civilians, women, or children. Torture committed by Americans in the past continues to kill Americans today." [...]

“If right-wing news outlets and partisan pundits or politicians are allowed to continue to spread their completely bogus claims that torture is effective,” he said, “then we will have corrupted the beliefs of yet another generation of new intelligence recruits….It takes months and years of ‘intervention’ to get the next generation back on the track of quality work, specialization, and intelligence dominance – not quick and easy fixes. This is not an hour-long TV show.”

[Subotan]

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.....

Only because the nature of the goal the Provos were working for (I.e. a united Ireland) was not best served by an intensive campaign of terror against the civilian population in Great Britain - the IRA always saw themselves as an army fighting a war against the British Army and the Loyalist Paras. That they essentially became a a mafia with rocket launchers that made life hell for the Irishmen they claimed to be fighting for is neither here nor there, as the nature of the conflicts are completely different.

There are lots of examples of Christians murdering populations en masse in the modern world - the Srebenica Massacre, which happened in your lifetime, is one, where over 8,000 men and boys were executed by Christians over the course of about two weeks.

[Fragony]

Oh yeah that. It really stands out doesn't it

[Hax]

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.....

Ah, and how many civilians killed due to retaliatory action in Iraq (which, incidentally, had nothing to do with Osama bin Laden)?

[Tellos Athenaios]

More civilians were killed in the USA in 2001 in car accidents than by terrorist attacks, too. Number of people killed when someone started sending Anthrax by mail in 2001 was about zero but it still ended up being significant 'cause you know it made people go hysteric faced with the prospect of flour or washing powder.

It's not how many people died in 9/11 that made the attack significant: it is that the USA/world felt it so keenly. By contrast the 7-7 bombers had much less lasting effect.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Ah, and how many civilians killed due to retaliatory action in Iraq (which, incidentally, had nothing to do with Osama bin Laden)?

Zero. There was no retaliatory attack to kill Muslims in Iraq.

(Save for some individuals, for example that guy from Wasilla who has just been sentenced by an American court to 24 years imprisonment for the murder of three Afghanis)


Iaqi deaths since 2003 are better compared to how many would've died under the brutal Saddam regime.

[Hax]

Zero. There was no retaliatory attack to kill Muslims in Iraq.

No? Weren't Iraq's supposed ties with al-Qaeda used to justify the invasion at least partially?

Iaqi deaths since 2003 are better compared to how many would've died under the brutal Saddam regime.

Right, the same "brutal Saddam regime" that we thought was totally cool with murdering Kurds and Armenians and Iranians as long as they were at war with Iran, right? Right?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Right, the same "brutal Saddam regime" that we thought was totally cool with murdering Kurds and Armenians and Iranians as long as they were at war with Iran, right? Right?

Now therein lies the rub.

When 'we' did business with Saddam, we were accused of supporting him. When we boycotted him, we were accused of starving a million Iraqi children to death.
When we did not attack Saddam, we were accused of not aiding the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi victims of Saddam. When we did attack him, we were accused of killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's in a retaliatory attack.

Can't win this. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

A majority of republican voters thought 911 was linked to Iraq even years after all facts were out. Eventhough it was clear the US were there to get those weapons of mass destruction.

So, two thumbs up.

They also believed that toppling a dictator was the right thing, the 'American' thing, to do. Silly Americans and their willingness to shed their blood to spread democracy.

Sadly many noble intentions were mobilised to a cause which was never free from more cynical motives.

Still, however that may be, Iraq was not a retaliatory attack. The retaliatory attack was last week in Abbottabad.

[Shibumi]

Zero. There was no retaliatory attack to kill Muslims in Iraq.

(Save for some individuals, for example that guy from Wasilla who has just been sentenced by an American court to 24 years imprisonment for the murder of three Afghanis)


Iaqi deaths since 2003 are better compared to how many would've died under the brutal Saddam regime.

A majority of republican voters thought 911 was linked to Iraq even years after all facts were out. Eventhough it was clear the US were there to get those weapons of mass destruction.

So, two thumbs up.