naval battles?

[Ca Putt]

what about Shogon 2? I'm not suggesting here, I'm just curious how moddable it is ;)

[TheLastDays]

That's something I was curious about too ;) - since I have no idea about modding I don't know though

And thanks for the clarification bobbin

[bobbin]

Shogun 2 basically uses the same engine as Empire, so the same applies for it too.

[moonburn]

so what you´re saying bobbin is that once modders get the hang of empire and they start sharing the knowledge it´s doable ? maybe a transcript from mtw2 eb2 into shogun 2 can be done authomatically

anyway alot of people here are talking crap about hardcoding i love eb as much as everyone else but if you don´t hardcode the time it takes for a game to load and the turns to pass make the game unplayable for the teenager generation the creative assembly are trying to get

furthermore a proper maketing strategy is based on making the consumers faightfull to that product what you people are calling marketing is just dumb short term capitalization that a few companies make when they think they´re going under

[TheLastDays]

Sure I'm not saying that hardcoding is bad in general, I just thought, that the hardcoded features were increased from the RTW/MTW Enginge to the Empires Engine, which was just what I have read out of other people's post as I myself, as stated before, have no clue about modding. So that point of view is not applicable anymore, since bobbin has already corrected us when he stated that in fact Empires is more "open" than previous games but from my old point of view I was questioning the decisions to "lock" more features of a game that comes out of a series with a thriving modding community that made the previous games so much fun ;)

And my uneducated guess would be, that you can't just transcript eb2 from m2tw to shogun 2 as the engines are different... and there are features, like naval battles, the subject of this thread, that would have to be developed from the start for EB...

[bobbin]

There is not a chance in hell that EBII could be ported to S2 automatically, it has a different engine and even the basic format of simple files is completely new.

This is not even taking into account the many differences in gameplay mechanics between the M2TW and S2 engines which would render vast parts of the mod unusable.

[General Aetius]

fomalhaut

Re: naval battles?

how decisive were naval battles anyway? seems most navies were used for transporting and many just get destroyed by storms (Athens v Syracuse, Xerxes v Athens)

Like land battles some naval battles were complete slaughters while others not so decisive:

Salamis-
Greeks- 300-500 (378 Herodotus) ships. around 40 ships destroyed.
Persians- 500-800 ships. 200-300 ships captured or destroyed. Estimate 40,000 Persians killed.

Aegospotami-
Spartans- 180-200 ships, unknown but minimal losses.
Athenians- 170-200 ships, 150-190 ships captured or destroyed. 3000 Athenian prisoners
were also executed

Drepana-
Romans- 120-130, 93 ships lost, 8000 killed 20,000 captured.
Carthaginians- 120-130, minimal losses.

Ecnomus-
Romans- 330 ships, 24 ships sunk
Carthaginians- 350 ships, 30 ships sunk and 64 captured.

"seems most navies were used for transporting.."

Most of the above battles were fought with dedicated warships. Many early Athenian triremes were without decks and thus pretty useless as transports especially with most of the hull occupied by the 170-174 oarsmen. The Greeks used Special triremes(Stratiotis, Hoplitagogos and Hippagogos) as transports. Because of their different designs and crews they were not considered "fast triremes" (combat triremes) and thus not generally used in battles. Hippagogos , horse transports, were old triremes rowed by 60 oarsmen. Some (Lionel Casson, H. Wallinga) have suggested that of the 1,000 ships Aeschylus (Persians, 341-43) says Xerxes had, only those that were "arrogant for their speed" were fully crewed combat ships (The other 800 been manned by reserves and skeleton crews).

However later ships of the Hellenistic Age (polyremes- "fours", "fives", "sixes" and bigger) could accommodate many more soldiers, some carrying whole regiments:Explaining why Hellenistic fleets were used as transports as well as warships. But even with the advent of larger warships auxiliary ships (using both sails and oars) continued to be used as transports for many non-marines and land units.

General Aetius