non-Macedonian style Phalanx - broken?

[vollorix]

I don´t remember how those units were supposed to be used, but let´s face some facts...
Iphikratos Hoplitai are actually very usefull:
1. Spear/Sword combination, one of the very few native units the GCS got access to
- Peltastai are sword armed, but they lack the spear - fighting cavalry isn´t very effectiv
- Hoplitai Thorakitai - the greek reformed heavy hoplites are elite units, imo, lower on menpower, and bad stamina.
2. Personally, i´ve changed their stamina to "very hardy"; they allready get the "fast moving" attribute, but, imo, they really needed a little bumb in "health"
3. These units are not regionaly restricted, iirc, are quite cheat, and also available as mercs pretty much in the whole hellenistic world

Concerning other units:
Alpine Phalanx are very usefull against Romans ( excellent morale, good stamina, decent armour, "ap" sec. weapon; they are able to hold the line as much as the flanks - anti cavalry in perfection
Heavy Hoplites ( if you mean the same i´ve mentioned above ) are quite cool too, imo; though, i´ve tweaked my EDU too much, perhaps, so that i gave them the "ap" kopis.
Sacred Band...well, i´ve never bothered to use them ( some historical flare on the battlefileld aside ), but most hoplites used sword as their secondary weapon, and the only reason the classical ones ( + some others ) do not in game is because they would switch to it every time once engaged in melee.

So, you got your diversity, and different options. GCS actually get a very good infantry roster: for any purpose there is a unit, so to say.

Just my 2 cents, cheers ;)

[fomalhaut]

but you are talking about their purposes that are totally different than that of a phalanx. compared to Hoplite Phalanx they are worthless, a hoplite phalanx can push and use its 'many as one' mentality that is reflected in its gameplay use to annihilate a these style of phalanx. and on defense they are almost impregnable from many angles.

a real phalanx, or even German Pikemen are impenetrable from the front and can attack many enemies at once and are so much more useful than these in their stated purpose that it is a joke.

I don't want swordsmen or axemen, i want a unit who uses long spears to tie up and damage an enemy with minimal losses to my own when attacked from the front. however these units are worthless in this regard due to their immediate switching to secondary weapons and the fact that only the first line engages in combat

what are EB team members going to do about these units in EBII? Again, i don't see their purpose as being cute swordsmen with Phalanx in their name, i want a god dang phalanx. Iphrikates didn't reform Hoplites to combat Macedonian Phalanx only for them to be swordsmen, he meant them to be a mobile Phalanx with shorter spears. but as represented in game they are totally worthless except as swordsmen... but Macedonian Phalanx and Romans are already swordsmen too... and better swordsmen at that.

they don't have a use on the battlefield, i just don't see it. and i think that is a shame because some cool ass units use this animation/skeleton or whatever. The Helvetii are so freaking cool looking. Is there an easy way to animate/change them in a manner of German Pikemen? German Pikemen clearly have shorter spears than Macedonians, but long enough to engage multiple rows at the same time and tie up an enemy. I don't know the specifics but when the Iphriaktous Hoplite is explained to me in text it seems more like the German Pikemen (though with shorter tips) than big shield wearing swordsmen

Exhibit A) - notice first row engages only, and with swords. Also notice in background the veteran Massilian Hoplites who by far are more useful but it's cheap to have a wall of them. They only use spears due to EDU tweaks

[gamegeek2]

Play on BI.exe where you have shieldwall and these units can function LIKE a phalanx.

[fomalhaut]

i am using ALEX for stability and speed.

is this the only way to make them useful?

[A_Dane]

By "Sacred band" do you mean distinguished hoplites?

[Nerva]

He means the carthaginian sacred band I think, the one with the green shields and axes... I don't know... maybe you are accidentally pushing alt while attacking... if not maybe it's better to take the secondary weapon in the EDU. I'm almost sure the M2TW engine handles better secondary weapons so maybe there will be not problems with EB2.

[fomalhaut]

woah you guys really don't know what the Sacred Band of Baal is?! (not the Sacred Band of Thebes). It's the all silver unit that, not the green shielded one.

hahaha i am accidentally pressing alt every single time? not likely. still, i wonder in EB2 if these phalanxes will have only the first row or have it function as a phalanx?