Releasing Tournament Replays

[TinCow]

I've had this discussion with many people over the last few days. For The Tosa Cup, everyone was asked to save all of their replays. This was for two reasons: (1) To resolve any arguments about a game if that happened or a loss wasn't properly reported, and (2) to provide entertainment for spectators. Yesterday, there was a large discussion in the Org Steam group chat room and the majority were in favor of releasing all replays after the end of each round (i.e. Release Round 1 after the end of Round 1, etc.). Today, other people who were not in that discussion are very much against this, and want replays released only after the entire tournament has been run. Both sides have good arguments, opinion seems relatively evenly split, and I do not have the MP experience to feel comfortable making this decision unilaterally. As such, I am going to open this up for a discussion and vote. One final note is that I have been doing my best to collect all the replays I can from everyone. However, we all know the game is buggy and some people have ended up with corrupted 1k saves for some matches and some have forgotten to save them for a specific round. Thus, it is impossible for me to get a complete set of all games played, regardless of all other factors.

Please comment on this issue and vote in the poll above. I will delay the scheduled release of the Round 1 replays for 24 hours to allow for this discussion.

[Kocmoc]

I want to see the replays/vids during the tourney. Its interesting and entertaining and somehow a good way to keep people involved.

Also I dont think, that we can stop people to share the replays with other. We can tell them, to not share it, but in the end, how you control that?
I try to use rules, which we actual can control.

Anyway, just my opinion...

[RTKAbu]

Tomorrow after the patch all replays become useless anyway, as the results of every replay will change as the gamemechanics and balance will slightly change.

My feeling is that if i were in good shape and had won my games in the first round, i woulnt like that my tactics would go open, yet. I dont think any player here cares about the replays, only that those replays atm can be used by opponents, if you play significantly different then 2 weeks ago and youre new playstyle comes open, it becomes easier to adept to it. Why not simply wait a few days with those replays, until the final is near? If you could stream the games live then it would be a different story, but well.

[Meataus]

Well I actually changed my mind and voted to release them all after each round is completed.

Reason being is it puts us all on a level playing field, otherwise replays will probably just get shared between certain individuals and we wont all have access to them.

We all have our preferred armies, but people are going to figure out what they are anyways. This way at least everyone will know. If the Oda situation yesterday taught us anything, its that we have to be prepared to change our armies on the fly, if for no other reason than to be unpredictable.

[CanCritter]

a good gen adapts or at least trys to....
as for replays lm not in tourney so my opinion dosnt realy count but would like to see them ..at least the top couple levels..mayby l'll learn somethin..personaly think they shouldn tbe availible till after tourney
think player setups near top of ladder will be well known beforehand and those useing all calv ect are prone to useing the same setup as thier used to it which in turn would be to there disadvantage as folks would prep for it and know
now the player that can adjust accordinly to all situations will be the winner lm thinkin

[TinCow]

I would like to inject an argument here that most people don't consider: The Org. We've put in a lot of time and resources to this tournament, and that has certainly been done to benefit the MP community and give you guys a good time. However, we are also trying to grow our community. Part of that is getting more people to come to the Org, and the only good way to do that is with original content, such as replays and videos of the replays. Allowing an earlier release of the replays would help the Org to grow better than a later release.

[Meataus]

I would like to inject an argument here that most people don't consider: The Org. We've put in a lot of time and resources to this tournament, and that has certainly been done to benefit the MP community and give you guys a good time. However, we are also trying to grow our community. Part of that is getting more people to come to the Org, and the only good way to do that is with original content, such as replays and videos of the replays. Allowing an earlier release of the replays would help the Org to grow better than a later release.

Yeah, there's that too. Plus releasing the replays will help keep interest alive while we wait to play our next games.

[Nikodil]

Voted "during tournament".

Ideally I would like to view the tournament matches in real time. If only the game would allow for an unlimited amount of spectators...

[Nigel]

To me the "entertainment value" argument has a lot of weight.
A good tournament is not only and event for the particpants, but for the whole community including those who sit on the fence and cross their fingers for their fighting friends.

I would even have loved to see (read) some AARs of battles while the tournament goes on - but realize this is also a lot of work.
Replays are one way to follow the events and enjoy the spirit of it.

[TinCow]

Thank you to all who voted and commented; clearly opinion is pretty evenly split on this and an executive decision is required. I completely understand the reasoning behind the desire for a post-tournament release. However, I do not think that is the best thing for the Org community. We are certainly hosting this tournament to give all of the contestants a fun experience, but we are also doing it to grow our own community and provide good entertainment for our existing members. Allowing spectators to see parts of the tournament while it is ongoing helps attract people to the forums better than a post-release would. I think this is a reasonable exchange for the time and effort the Org has put into organizing and running this event, not to mention putting up part of the prize. At the same time, this issue makes me think a lot about professional sporting and gaming endeavors. I cannot think of a single example, from football to chess to Starcraft, where opponents do not have access to replays of their opponents. I do not see why it should make a difference here if it does not in those fields. As such, I will be releasing the replays between rounds so that non-Tournament participants can enjoy the event as well. I hope those that voted for a post-Tournament release will understand this reasoning.

[AggonyKing]

close vote :D

[East East Wild]

Imagine, world cup would only be televised after every match is complete to protect their secret tactics against their oponents. lol.

[AMP]

I don't mind it really as most people are to lazy to search up on their opponent... in this game anyway. I'm sure if it was for big money people would be hounding for replays to study whoever they are playing against, but it's not so most don't care.

[Swoosh So]

Well ok people can check my replays if they like, i had the worst 4 games ive had in ages really just did enough to scrape by. They should come with a snooze warning tho cause they aint upto much.

[Kocmoc]

I would like to inject an argument here that most people don't consider: The Org. We've put in a lot of time and resources to this tournament, and that has certainly been done to benefit the MP community and give you guys a good time. However, we are also trying to grow our community. Part of that is getting more people to come to the Org, and the only good way to do that is with original content, such as replays and videos of the replays. Allowing an earlier release of the replays would help the Org to grow better than a later release.

Exactly. One reason the tourney (and also future tourneys) is done is, that we want to make this place more visited and more attractive.
Replays of the tourney are one way to keep people interested. Thats part of the tourney and Im sure many want to see certain matches.
Personal Id made it a clear rule. Let show it, no matter what.

[Jochi Khan]

One thing that has not been posted in this topic......New Patches.

The replays will not show how the battle was really fought if they are pre-patch replays.

Once the patch has been downloaded your replays are no longer 'valid.'

I have checked some of my earlier replays to confirm this and they give the impression of different unit movement and the end game is totally wrong.

[TinCow]

Hmmm... that's annoying. Not much I can do about it at this point though. I've added info about which patch the matches were played under to the replays and the video commentaries. I will continue to do that for every single Tosa Cup game, so that it's clear.

[Jochi Khan]

Hmmm... that's annoying. Not much I can do about it at this point though. I've added info about which patch the matches were played under to the replays and the video commentaries. I will continue to do that for every single Tosa Cup game, so that it's clear.

But, Steam automatically updates your installed game with the 'latest patch' and you are unable to set it back to an earlier date.

So your earlier replays are still not correct. Very annoying I know.

[TinCow]

But, Steam automatically updates your installed game with the 'latest patch' and you are unable to set it back to an earlier date.

So your earlier replays are still not correct. Very annoying I know.

Yeah, it also means AzureCuzYeah and jackie_fish aren't going to be able to make videos from those either, which is very annoying. Ah well... not much that can be done about it I guess.