Religion, moral and values.

[Shibumi]

Reading the American political spectrum thread, one of the questions stood out.

It IS NOT necessary to believe in God in order to be moral and have good values
or
It IS necessary to believe in God in order to be moral and have good values

I thought this whole debate belonged in some wacky borderline crazy religious fringe in politics, but given it got a position among the top 20 questions of American politics - it scares me to say the least.

Is the belief that a belief in God (I assume the Christian one is the one implied) is necessary widely spread enough for this to be a real issue, or did this political compass go out on a limb for some reason?


And as a side note - what would the reasoning behind this belief be?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Reading the American political spectrum thread, one of the questions stood out.

It IS NOT necessary to believe in God in order to be moral and have good values
or
It IS necessary to believe in God in order to be moral and have good values

I thought this whole debate belonged in some wacky borderline crazy religious fringe in politics, but given it got a position among the top 20 questions of American politics - it scares me to say the least.

Is the belief that a belief in God (I assume the Christian one is the one implied) is necessary widely spread enough for this to be a real issue, or did this political compass go out on a limb for some reason?


And as a side note - what would the reasoning behind this belief be?

Sounds liek you need to learn some more about America bro. Come over here and watch our TV.


As for the reasoning, ummm ask PVC or Rhy.

[Shibumi]

Wow.

Is that guy at all representing some sort of major stream in thinking? Over here he would come off as a complete loon.

[HoreTore]

What is the reasoning?

Hate.

Nothing else. Hate towards those who do not believe as you do.

[gaelic cowboy]

I'd say tisn't hate not at this stage in American civilisation, there are plenty loons allright but my hunch is that it's more cultural, they live in an echo chamber 'twould seem a perfectly sound statement that you have to be religious to have morals to them.

[HoreTore]

Wiki has the answer to your question, Scienter:

1.

One atheist in congress. Enjoy your theocracy.

[Rhyfelwyr]

It IS NOT necessary to believe in God in order to be moral and have good values
or
It IS necessary to believe in God in order to be moral and have good values

As for the reasoning, ummm ask PVC or Rhy.

Well... I actually voted for the first option in that poll.

Christianity isn't about being a better or more moral person than other people... it's about admitting that you're not.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Well... I actually voted for the first option in that poll.

Christianity isn't about being a better or more moral person than other people... it's about admitting that you're not.

I didn't mean to infer that you supported the position, I was just conceding that you and PVC seem to have the most experience and knowledge of religious doctrine and could explain the thought process of those that choose the second option.

[Scienter]

Is the belief that a belief in God (I assume the Christian one is the one implied) is necessary widely spread enough for this to be a real issue, or did this political compass go out on a limb for some reason?


And as a side note - what would the reasoning behind this belief be?

I believe that it is a real issue. I seriously doubt that an agnostic/atheist President will be elected in the US any time soon. I think that many Americans consider the US a Christian country. I'd like to see a breakdown of Congresspeople by religion, though.

Personally, I don't think that one must believe in a higher power to have good morals and values. But, I believe that I am in the minority. I would like to hear reasoning behind the belief that one must believe in God to have good values, though I would probably disagree with it.

[Ironside]

The historical irony of humans coming up with a moral value and then give it power by claiming that it's coming from the gods is not lost on me.

Skullheadhq, I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but please define your moral value from the Bible then. With quotes!

[Skullheadhq]

The historical irony of humans coming up with a moral value and then give it power by claiming that it's coming from the gods is not lost on me.

Skullheadhq, I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but please define your moral value from the Bible then. With quotes!

Is it possible to quote the entire law of Moses, prophets, Luke, Mark, John, Matthew and the epistles of the Apostle's in one post or should I do it in multiple.
And even if morality doesn't come from 'the gods', it still wouldn't harm, except wicked and immoral people.

Ermmm.... no?

That is completely unsupported and unfounded with no basis in reality. It would be the equivalent of me saying "The decrease in Catholicism over the past 20 years has led to a decrease in Child Abuse."

Do you think that more atheism and godlessness will increase morality?

[Ironside]

Is it possible to quote the entire law of Moses, prophets, Luke, Mark, John, Matthew and the epistles of the Apostle's in one post or should I do it in multiple.
And even if morality doesn't come from 'the gods', it still wouldn't harm, except wicked and immoral people.

Thankfully I found at least some of them here http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Bible_rules.
Are all of them still applying or have some became obsolete? If some are obsolete, which ones? And who decides that?

[Skullheadhq]

Thankfully I found at least some of them here http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Bible_rules.
Are of them still applying or have some became obsolete? If some are obsolete, which ones? And who decides that?

None are obsolete, but is it possible to do every single one of them always?

[Beskar]

You forgot to mention the ones that contradict each other.

Do you support the return of stoning as a punishment as well, Skullheadhq?

I like this one too:

Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

In the Old Testament, God hates cripples during the time where the "modern medicine" was covering a wound with dung. No wonder he sent Jesus, he ran out of eligible followers.

[Subotan]

The creed which accepts as the foundation of morals, Utility, or the Greatest Happiness Principle, holds that actions are right in proportion as they tend to promote happiness, wrong as they tend to produce the reverse of happiness. By happiness is intended pleasure, and the absence of pain; by unhappiness, pain, and the privation of pleasure.

Right, thread over, I'll take my cheque.

[HoreTore]

Do you think that more atheism and godlessness will increase morality?

My answer to that is a clear "YES!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Beskar]

I believe alternatives such as Humanism will increase morality, yes.