Some Mistakes Of Moses by Robert Green IngersollOriginally Posted by HoreTore
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Some Mistakes Of Moses by Robert Green Ingersoll
They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.
Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy
Re: Religion, moral and values.
92 pages in 1990 newsgroup style in which he basically confuses personal disagreements he has with the pentateuch with mistakes. TL;DR.
Last edited by Skullheadhq; 05-10-2011 at 16:48.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
The creed which accepts as the foundation of morals, Utility, or the Greatest Happiness Principle, holds that actions are right in proportion as they tend to promote happiness, wrong as they tend to produce the reverse of happiness. By happiness is intended pleasure, and the absence of pain; by unhappiness, pain, and the privation of pleasure.
Right, thread over, I'll take my cheque.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
HEY GUYS, LET US **** EVERYONE AND BE MORAL! HAHAHA EVERYONE HAPPY EVERYONE MORAL!
I hope you're joking. John Stuart Mill and his sick ideology is what's destroying society.
Last edited by Skullheadhq; 05-10-2011 at 16:59.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
I didn't expect to you but the mistakes are there all the same.
They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.
Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy
Re: Religion, moral and values.
No, but for me, this is morality. To me, the opposite view is immorality.
I fell like doing a breakdown of the collection of abuses usually called the ten commandments(lutheran version):
1: I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol.
ORLY?
This is totalitarianism. A human is free to think as they please, and choose how they please. I can't make me an idol? Have a look at my freedom of expression, and go join Stalin, Daffy and all the other dictators who gain sexual pleasure from controlling the minds of their population.
2. Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
I can and I will, freedom of speech is vital in any society. Can't handle that? Go hide in a corner.
3. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
No. Just no. I will work when I get the chance, at any day. I can organize my personal life on my own, thankyouverymuch.
4. Honor your father and mother.
No, I will not honour my parents because they are my parents. I will honour them if they in turn honour me. If they don't, I won't. Honouring people solely based on blood and kinship is plain stupidity, and the basis of any racist.
5. You shall not kill/murder.
Well duuuuuuuuuuuh... I am perfectly capable of knowing that killing other people is bad, I don't see the need for anyone to tell me that. What makes this commandment bad, is that it is used to justify the list.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
Yes, I will. Pre-marital sex is good and healthy, plain and simple.
7. You shall not steal
Same as for number 5.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Again, same as for number 5.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Excuse me, but my neighbors wife is not his possession. She is not his to keep, if I want her and she wants me, it's right for us to be together.
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Yes, I should want to own his possessions. This is the driving force of the capitalist economy, the desire to own more and more. This in turn has created extra-ordinary economic growth and is the reason why we have so good living conditions today. If I see a man living in a castle, I shouldn't be indifferent to it, I should desire to one day live in that casatle, which will motivate me to work hard, for the benefit of myself and society.
Last edited by HoreTore; 05-10-2011 at 17:02.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Religion, moral and values.
I hope it makes you happy
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Oh it makes me very happy, which is why I love life here in western europe, and feel its just getting better and better.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Religion, moral and values.
http://www.google.nl/#hl=nl&source=h...56f642a2cc9723
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Ironside, winning post there.
Skullheadhq, I did not expect to meet someone like you on this side of the millennium. If you defend the view that religious people have better moral than atheist ones, then how can you explain such things as crime statistics, birth statistics - and so on?
If your view were true, the USA would see way less crime than, say, atheist Sweden.
International level aside, I guess then that your prisons are filled with atheists?
Another Example, Japan has a very very very low percentage of christians, yet their criminal record is the lowest in the world (IIRC). How do you explain this? Are they simply all secretly christian, or what?
I do not think you have thought this through.
Few are born with it, even fewer know what to do with it.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Sweden has less 'minorities'.
Also, 'that idea is old and thus wrong' sounds like a fallacy to me.
Last edited by Skullheadhq; 05-10-2011 at 17:19.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
In Sweden, it is the "minorities" that has a belief in God.
Mainstream population is atheist.
For you to be right we should thus get better and better morals the more immigrants we accepted.
Few are born with it, even fewer know what to do with it.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
71.3% of Sweden is part of the Church of Sweden (Lutheran), you lose.
"23% [of Sweden says] that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life force"
Last edited by Skullheadhq; 05-10-2011 at 17:28.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
To quote Mill again,
When thus attacked, the Epicureans have always answered, that it is not they, but their accusers, who represent human nature in a degrading light; since the accusation supposes human beings to be capable of no pleasures except those of which swine are capable. If this supposition were true, the charge could not be gainsaid, but would then be no longer an imputation; for if the sources of pleasure were precisely the same to human beings and to swine, the rule of life which is good enough for the one would be good enough for the other. The comparison of the Epicurean life to that of beasts is felt as degrading, precisely because a beast's pleasures do not satisfy a human being's conceptions of happiness.
Alternatively,
In the golden rule of Jesus of Nazareth, we read the complete spirit of the ethics of utility.
I could do this all day. Making thoughtful, provocative and devastating backroom comments has never been easier.
ho ho hoSkullheadhq, I did not expect to meet someone like you on this side of the millennium.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
So you say atheists are altruistic Epicureans?
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....
As far as I know, I'm still a member of the Church of Norway. The Church of Sweden works the same way, in that everyone who's mother or father belongs to the church on paper is entered into it. I renounced my membership(my moyher was still a member at the time of my birth) for the 3rd(!) time last year, but I have strong doubts that they have actually managed to strike me off their records.
The membership number in the criminal state church says absolutely nothing about how many people are religious here. The last survey I saw that had the question "Do you believe in god?" had 70% say "no". It's the same in Sweden.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Not necessarily, just as Christians aren't necessarily charity-giving do-gooders. But should they aim to be? Probably, yes.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
I agree, I agree, but shouldn't we help the people with that?
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Are you actually now trying to teach me about my own country?
71,3% of Swedes are part of the church of Sweden because, guess what, you enter it from birth. To mistake that number for actual religious followers are narrow minded to say the least.
23% of Swedes believe there is not any sort of spirit, god or life force. Sure, I as an example believe in some sort of life force, how else would we have life? I am as far away from being christian as you are from a correct analysis though.
Few are born with it, even fewer know what to do with it.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
“it is impossible for an atheist to even define what morals are” ?. You should read a little bit more, you know, the Universal Human Rights thing…
The moral values of an atheist come from reasoning, not revealed by a ball of fire or after a walk in the desert without hat and having eating too much of these nice mushrooms (the ones red with blue spots).
“The increase of atheism has led to more disgusting immorality in this last 20 years than ever seen before!” You mean as the Inquisition, the burning alive of witches on the public places or the stoning to death of adulteries?
Don’t start on this, the crimes organised by various religions groups are well documented from collective suicides to pogroms…
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
Re: Religion, moral and values.
So, are you going to define what Christianity is then? And let me guess, it's a very liberal, modern definition of what you perceive of what 'real Christianity' is.
Last edited by Skullheadhq; 05-10-2011 at 19:13.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Well... I actually voted for the first option in that poll.
Christianity isn't about being a better or more moral person than other people... it's about admitting that you're not.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
So aethists doesn't know morals, because that's the job for old dudes (there's always old dudes for this) that lived for more than 1000 years ago? That or the first commandment is about the existance of more than one god...
That's why God invented Saturday. No, wait we came up with that one ourselves. Or the national day or any non-religious red day.3. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
No. Just no. I will work when I get the chance, at any day. I can organize my personal life on my own, thankyouverymuch.
Thank you for destroying small shops by being egoistic
Indeed, lets reintroduce the death penalty for disobedient children.4. Honor your father and mother.
No, I will not honour my parents because they are my parents. I will honour them if they in turn honour me. If they don't, I won't. Honouring people solely based on blood and kinship is plain stupidity, and the basis of any racist.
This disrespect is what's destroying society.
- Leviticus 20:9:
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
How dare the children curse their parents when they're getting sexually abused and beaten.
We have condoms and basing a marriage on love and/or personal compatabillity instead of politics or a crush might not always be the best, but it's an improvement on average.6. You shall not commit adultery.
Yes, I will. Pre-marital sex is good and healthy, plain and simple.
Long live AIDS and immorality, huh?
It might actually be that gender biased. But I digress.9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Excuse me, but my neighbors wife is not his possession. She is not his to keep, if I want her and she wants me, it's right for us to be together.
Thanks for destoying families.
Since it takes two to cheat, it's a sign that not all is well inside that family. Sometimes, they're better off breaking up. It's not the nicest thing, since cheating is always a break of trust, but that's hardly something that should be criminalised, but handled by the parts involved (that involves breaking up, divorce, accepting it or trying to fix what's wrong).
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Re: Religion, moral and values.
No, you most definitely must not.
- Tellos Athenaios
CUF tool - XIDX - PACK tool - SD tool - EVT tool - EB Install Guide - How to track down loading CTD's - EB 1.1 Maps thread
“ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
No such consensus did ever exist - nor will it ever do so. Such is the human nature.
Runes for good luck:
[1 - exp(i*2π)]^-1
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Remember, many of the laws being quoted hear are not part of the moral law, but the laws Moses gave to the Israelites as a civil leader, and which were only ever intended for the Israelite people. For a particular place and time.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
I didn't mean to infer that you supported the position, I was just conceding that you and PVC seem to have the most experience and knowledge of religious doctrine and could explain the thought process of those that choose the second option.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
I think that anyone that has sat down for five minutes to think about how society works generally agrees it's not really a good idea if we kill or steal. I think that religion may help for those incapable or unwilling to do so, but it shouldn't have to. Skullhead, you are like me, a citizen of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Let's take a look at 1848. What happened? Right, Thorbecke happened. The Dutch constitution, enabling the modern Dutch parliamentary democracy was laid down. Was it religious in nature? Was Thorbecke a religious man? I don't think it's important.
But he knew something that defines our current society; piety does not necessarily correlate with moral behaviour. This is vital to keep in mind.
This space intentionally left blank.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
A lot of people need religion as a crutch because they are too weak to be good simply because it is the right thing to do.
Not that all religious people are weak, but if you can't understand why someone without god or religion can be moral then obviously your entire social well being depends on using religion to make yourself a good person.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
(1) Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.
(2) In all things, strive to cause no harm.
(3) Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.
(4) Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.
(5) Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.
(6) Always seek to be learning something new.
(7) Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.
(8) Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.
(9) Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.
(10) Question everything.
Something along those lines look rather universal.
Last edited by Shibumi; 05-10-2011 at 19:52. Reason: sp
Few are born with it, even fewer know what to do with it.
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