Religion, moral and values.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I agree, I agree, but shouldn't we help the people with that?

No, you most definitely must not.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Remember, many of the laws being quoted hear are not part of the moral law, but the laws Moses gave to the Israelites as a civil leader, and which were only ever intended for the Israelite people. For a particular place and time.

[Hax]

I think that anyone that has sat down for five minutes to think about how society works generally agrees it's not really a good idea if we kill or steal. I think that religion may help for those incapable or unwilling to do so, but it shouldn't have to. Skullhead, you are like me, a citizen of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Let's take a look at 1848. What happened? Right, Thorbecke happened. The Dutch constitution, enabling the modern Dutch parliamentary democracy was laid down. Was it religious in nature? Was Thorbecke a religious man? I don't think it's important.

But he knew something that defines our current society; piety does not necessarily correlate with moral behaviour. This is vital to keep in mind.

[a completely inoffensive name]

A lot of people need religion as a crutch because they are too weak to be good simply because it is the right thing to do.

Not that all religious people are weak, but if you can't understand why someone without god or religion can be moral then obviously your entire social well being depends on using religion to make yourself a good person.