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Thread: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

  1. #1

    Default Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Ok so I read this random article on the internet about what a crappy country Sweden is, and I want to know if you think the country is the worst in Europe or just one of the worst?

    When those jobs disappeared, Sweden stopped the flow of immigrant labor, but not the flow of refugees, many of whom clustered in Malmo and other former industrial centers. Jobs were still scarce, but housing was available, apartments built long ago for laborers.

    In some of those apartment blocks, the unemployment rate among immigrants stands at 80 percent. Still, their children need schooling, and they have elderly parents who need health care. Some are damaged by the violence they have lived through. They suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder and drug and alcohol addictions.

    Prof. Jan Ekberg, an economist at Linnaeus University, questions the policies that allowed so many refugees to settle far from jobs. “They are depending on the public sector now as never before,” he said. “That was a policy mistake.”

    Rosengard hardly has the look of a troubled ghetto. Lawns and playgrounds abound. But the area does not look like traditional Sweden, either. Satellite dishes hang from every balcony. The bakery sells Middle Eastern confections. Al Jazeera plays on the televisions. And young men huddle on street corners casually bragging about doing battle with the police.

    A few years ago, the fire and ambulance brigades would not even enter Rosengard without a police escort. Youths there threw rocks and set cars on fire. Police officials say things are much better now. Fires were down 40 percent last year compared with 2009. But last month, two police vehicles parked at the station were set on fire with small homemade explosives.

    Wow, this scares me. What an awful place to be. With 80% unemployment, ghettos, and street battles with police - it sounds more like Libya than a proper European nation. I would not expect to see such problems in any civilized Western nation on this side of the millennium. The people there must be loons to let this continue. I'm glad I live in the United States where such things don't happen, and I can look down on word deletednations like Sweden from an assumed position of superiority.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 05-10-2011 at 20:31. Reason: no collective bashings please

  2. #2
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    I think the UK is worse, we seem to have the most vocal Islamists. And the political parties love them, they always send out groups like Unite Again Fascism to help with their protests.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  3. #3
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Ok so I read this random article on the internet about what a crappy country Sweden is, and I want to know if you think the country is the worst in Europe or just one of the worst?




    Wow, this scares me. What an awful place to be. With 80% unemployment, ghettos, and street battles with police - it sounds more like Libya than a proper European nation. I would not expect to see such problems in any civilized Western nation on this side of the millennium. The people there must be loons to let this continue. I'm glad I live in the United States where such things don't happen, and I can look down on nations like Sweden from an assumed position of superiority.
    I can't tell if you are trolling or you actually want to have a civil conversation. Can you clarify?
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 05-10-2011 at 20:31.



  4. #4

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice View Post
    I can't tell if you are trolling or you actually want to have a civil conversation. Can you clarify?
    I thought all those problems belonged in some wacky borderline crazy third world nation, but given a whole internet article was devoted to them - it scares me to say the least.

  5. #5
    The Rhetorician Member Skullheadhq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Such is life in Europe I guess :<
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    A very good candidate for "worst article ever".

    I'll just adress one of the glaring errors in it: of course some of the blocks have 80% employment, and I bet there are several with 100%. Why? Because the husing policy is to cram those on welfare together. The three houses next to my ld job also had 100% unemployment among those living there, simply because they were all junkies and those are the houses the local government has made available for (not so) temporary housing.






    Anyways. Rosengård created Zlatan. Sweden, along with the rest of the world, should be awed by the roaring success this proves Rosengård to be.

    Sweden, where socisl mobility actually exists: one of the few places where the poor can actually make something of themselves through hard work, as opposed to places like america, where the poor stays poor and can only dream of bettering themselves.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 05-10-2011 at 19:27.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    I like. Thumbs up.
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Oh, and it should also be noted that Sweden has been under conservative rule for, what is it, 8 years now?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  9. #9

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Ok so I read this random article on the internet about what a crappy country Sweden is, and I want to know if you think the country is the worst in Europe or just one of the worst?




    Wow, this scares me. What an awful place to be. With 80% unemployment, ghettos, and street battles with police - it sounds more like Libya than a proper European nation. I would not expect to see such problems in any civilized Western nation on this side of the millennium. The people there must be loons to let this continue. I'm glad I live in the United States where such things don't happen, and I can look down on nations like Sweden from an assumed position of superiority.
    The standard of your posts seem to be degrading.

    I think one of the main issues with Sweden is the comparison to how it used to be not long ago. Immigration has completely demolished "folkhemmet", a socialistic experiment that proved quite successful.

    Now we have ghettos like Rosengård, Rinkeby, Södertälje - the list goes on.

    Of course, the standard of life in Sweden is still better than USA as you somehow deem superior, but then, you do not always come of as well read up on the topics discussed.

    Long story short, yes, we do indeed have huge immigration problems in Sweden. But it is still nothing compared to, say, France or Malta.

    I would not say it is the worst, or even one of the worst by far. Might however become if we continue this unhindered mass immigration. We might get a new Yugoslavia on our hands.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 05-10-2011 at 20:32.
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  10. #10
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    I thought all those problems belonged in some wacky borderline crazy third world nation, but given a whole internet article was devoted to them - it scares me to say the least.
    I think he refers to US ghetto's? There's two areas in Sweden that's nationally known to be severe immigrant ghetto's. They aren't exactly pretty, but not representative for the entire country.

    Interesting choise in the article. The number of Poles outnumber both Palestinians and Somalis and the average employment in Rosengård is 38%.

    Formulation of first post hints that you intend to make point about criticism (presumably) against US though?
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  11. #11
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    The answer is social building.

    Living in troubled areas makes for a troubled life, simply because you are affected by those around you. Sweden, like Norway, built a shedload of blocks in the 60's to solve the housing crisis for those of the working class and below. This effectively solved a major short-term problem, but it created a bad long term problem, because it also concentrated social problems resulting from poverty in one area.

    The answer is to spread both the poor, working class and middle class all over the place. That will avoid concentration of social problems, and stop the spiral. It might help combat racism as well, as the racists living in "100% white neighborhoods" like frags would say will be forced to intact with immigrants and discover that they're normal people too.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  12. #12

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Psssh, the teen pregnancy rate in the US makes us look more like a 3rd world country than their unemployment.


  13. #13
    The Rhetorician Member Skullheadhq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Psssh, the teen pregnancy rate in the US makes us look more like a 3rd world country than their unemployment.
    Why so self-hating?
    "When the candles are out all women are fair."
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skullheadhq View Post
    Why so self-hating?
    I guess my secular humanist morals are so high I put the well being of others before my pride.


  15. #15
    The Rhetorician Member Skullheadhq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    I guess my secular humanist morals are so high I put the well being of others before my pride.
    Is the backroom becoming one big thread?
    "When the candles are out all women are fair."
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skullheadhq View Post
    Is the backroom becoming one big thread?
    Not unless we all hold hands.


  17. #17
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    ....is that a faint chorus of "Koombayah" I hear?
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post

    Of course, the standard of life in Sweden is still better than USA as you somehow deem superior, but then, you do not always come of as well read up on the topics discussed.
    Ouch! It's not so fun when someone is casting aspertions against your country is it?

    Anyway, are you sure about that? The HDI says different.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Ouch! It's not so fun when someone is casting aspertions against your country is it?

    Anyway, are you sure about that? The HDI says different.
    Omg, the US jumped up nine spots from 2009.


    Obamacare has worked. Thank you PJ for providing the evidence.


  20. #20
    The Rhetorician Member Skullheadhq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Omg, the US jumped up nine spots from 2009.


    Obamacare has worked. Thank you PJ for providing the evidence.
    Congratulations on now paying for the lazy! At least you rose 9 spots.
    "When the candles are out all women are fair."
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Ouch! It's not so fun when someone is casting aspertions against your country is it?

    Anyway, are you sure about that? The HDI says different.
    Is that not what you did with the thread in the first place
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  22. #22
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Ah well it's Sweden, the ultimate thought-police state

  23. #23

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skullheadhq View Post
    Congratulations on now paying for the lazy! At least you rose 9 spots.
    Thank you. It would have been immoral otherwise.


  24. #24
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Ouch! It's not so fun when someone is casting aspertions against your country is it?

    Anyway, are you sure about that? The HDI says different.
    ....where, exactly, have somebpdy been "casting assertions"? The only thread I can think of stayed with amerrica fpr like 5 seconds before, in backroom tradition, onto something else, in this case general morals of religious and non-religious people...

    And damn, how did I miss the point of this thread.... I'm ashamed of myself.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  25. #25

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Ouch! It's not so fun when someone is casting aspertions against your country is it?

    Anyway, are you sure about that? The HDI says different.
    As to your first point, you might have noticed that I did not argue against your point, just the parts of your argument that seemed less educated. I do not let national pride get in the way of accepting troublesome issues in my country. So your main agenda kind of backfired, would you not say?

    About your second point, yes I am sure.
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    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    I approve of teen pregnancy, and think it in no way is indicative of a country's livability. In fact, I would say it improves a a country's livability if anything.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  27. #27
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post
    I approve of teen pregnancy, and think it in no way is indicative of a country's livability. In fact, I would say it improves a a country's livability if anything.
    Well of course, infants have the most teeth in Oklahoma

    As per the article, I agree with PJ, taking on more people when their are no jobs is pretty stupid esp considering the dynamic between Somlia and Sweden is so very different than the one between say America and MExico
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  28. #28
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Well of course, infants have the most teeth in Oklahoma

    As per the article, I agree with PJ, taking on more people when their are no jobs is pretty stupid esp considering the dynamic between Somlia and Sweden is so very different than the one between say America and MExico
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  29. #29

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post

    About your second point, yes I am sure.
    On what do you base that on? I can't seem to find any objective measurement that puts Sweden on top.
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 05-10-2011 at 21:49.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Sweden: Totally Messed Up or Just Kind of Messed Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    On what do you base that on? I can't seem to find any objective measurement that puts Sweden on top.
    Usually PJ, it is polite to respond "You are welcome." when someone thanks you. :(


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