These People Make my Head Hurt

[Ice]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/05/07...ex.html?hpt=T2

(CNN) -- An airline is investigating the removal of two imams from a flight headed to North Carolina, ostensibly because passengers felt uncomfortable with their presence of the pair -- both clad in Islamic attire.

The incident occurred Friday on an Atlanta Southeast Airlines flight from Tennessee to North Carolina and it involved Masudur Rahman and Mohamed Zaghloul were wearing traditional Muslim dress, CNN affiliate WCNC reported.

The two -- who hold high religious positions in the Muslim community -- were headed to North Carolina for a conference on prejudice against Muslims, or Islamaphobia. The meeting is sponsored by the North American Imams Federation.

Rahman, who is a professor at the University of Memphis, told the affiliate that the incident reminded him of the prejudice Rosa Parks faced during the civil rights movement.

"That history I found today in that plane, and it shouldn't happen with any other person," he said.

Atlantic Southeast Airlines, which operated the flight, said the incident is under investigation, and apologized "for any inconvenience that this may have caused."

Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the civil rights group Council on American-Islamic Relations, told CNN the two men contacted his office and said they were told that passengers were uncomfortable with them on the flight.

"They went through security, even went through secondary security, and got on the plane, were taxiing out," he said.

But then, they were taxied back, Hooper said.

"TSA came on and pulled them off and said the pilot was refusing to fly with them because passengers were uncomfortable with them," Hooper said, referring to the Transportation Security Administration.

Hooper said officials re-screened them and found they were no threat.

While officials tried to get the men back on the plane, "the pilot absolutely refused and ultimately took off," Hooper said.

The airlines did not say why the two men were taken off the flight, but said they were given the opportunity to fly on a different flight.

"Atlantic Southeast Airlines flight 5452 from Memphis to Charlotte returned to the gate to allow for additional screening of a passenger and the passenger's companion," the statement said. "We take security and safety very seriously, and the event is currently under investigation.

People are so terrible sometimes.

[PanzerJaeger]

Oh my. They missed a flight because they decided to dress in full, traditional Muslim garb on an airplane a couple of days after Osama Bin Laden was killed and people got spooked. That's definitely some Rosa Parks **** right there.

Somehow I get the feeling these guys were looking for a story to tell at their conference.

[Ice]

Oh my. They missed a flight. That's definitely some Rosa Parks **** right there.

Lol? Them missing the flight wasn't the reason for the Rosa Parks comment. Them being kicked off a plane for no reason other than people were uncomfortable around them, was the reason.

[Skullheadhq]

Lol? Them missing the flight wasn't the reason for the Rosa Parks comment. Them being kicked off a plane for no reason other than people were uncomfortable around them, was the reason.

It would have been hilarious if the pilot would have flown them back to the middle east

But that would have been *ahum* islamophobic.

[Brenus]

Come on, it is just pieces of clothing...
No meaning whatsoever, I was told for the Burka. They are free to wear what they what and to travel. USA is the land of the free isn’t it?
By the way, I do not remember that the Curran has any description of clothing for the Believers but I can be mistaken in this field…

[Louis VI the Fat]

Pff...

I can't believe these two were given free tickets for a later plane. So two Imams are headed to a conference on prejudice against Muslims, and go out of their way to provoke a reaction. What a circus. Like two priests suspiciously hanging around a kindergarten all day long a few days after another scandal breaks out, just so they can cry discrimination at their conference. The cheek of it all!

I hope somebody is checking to see of their citizenship can be revoked. I've had it up to here with these clowns.

Come on, it is just pieces of clothing...
No meaning whatsoever, I was told for the Burka. They are free to wear what they what and to travel.

[ajaxfetish]

Sounds like the pilot should be looking for a new job. They ran them three times through security. What's security there for if not to determine whether someone is a threat. There was no indication of any danger from the two. Yet another case of fear and security concerns trumping freedom. I do not like this trend.

Ajax

[Viking]

It has been assumed that these people would normally not use this sort of attire when taking airliners. Please provide sources for this.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Pff...

I can't believe these two were given free tickets for a later plane. So two Imams are headed to a conference on prejudice against Muslims, and go out of their way to provoke a reaction. What a circus. Like two priests suspiciously hanging around a kindergarten all day long a few days after another scandal breaks out, just so they can cry discrimination at their conference. The cheek of it all!

I hope somebody is checking to see of their citizenship can be revoked. I've had it up to here with these clowns.

I hope this is just you trying to be controversial by taking the unpopular position, Louis!

Your examples don't work because they are examples of people going out of their way to cause offense. Which is completely different to a traditionalist Muslim just wearing his everyday clothes. Trying to go about his daily business, only to get kicked off a plane because he happens to come from the same culture and accompanying dress sense of one guy who happens to be a well-known terrorist?

Does this mean at the height of the IRA bombing campaing, an Irishman travelling in the UK should have to fake an English accent since obviously his Irish accent might lead people into thinking he has planted a bomb somewhere?

Or when the FLQ caused a bit of a craze, should Francophone Quebecers have started talking English in public, since they might scare the English-speakers into thinking they are terrorists?

[PanzerJaeger]

Lol? Them missing the flight wasn't the reason for the Rosa Parks comment. Them being kicked off a plane for no reason other than people were uncomfortable around them, was the reason.

Sensitivity and understanding go both ways. These people want to pretend like we don't live in a world where traditionalist Muslims fly planes into buildings on occasion. Now of course, if you sat down and thought about it, the guys who stand out the most as being Muslim probably aren't going to be your terrorists, but it still makes people uncomfortable. It's not racism or any anti-Islamic crap; it’s just how the current reality has conditioned them to respond - especially in the days after we killed the hijacker-in-chief.

An analogy. I love guns and would never even consider shooting someone in anger, and I'll stand up to defend my right to own them anytime and anywhere, but I wouldn't where a t-shirt with an Glock on it to a game at Virginia Tech - or to a Gabby Giffords speech. It sucks that a few fanatics have put a taint on one of my favorite interests, but that's life. It's all about discretion.

These people could have put on some jeans and a t-shirt and instead chose to be deliberately provocative in the setting they put themselves in. The result? They got bumped from a flight, profusely apologized to, and were given the next flight out. Comparing themselves to Rosa Parks is the height of arrogance and disrespect.

[Hax]

Sensitivity and understanding go both ways. These people want to pretend like we don't live in a world where traditionalist Muslims fly planes into buildings on occasion.

You make it sound like it's a hobby.

"Huh well, I already made love to this goat today, beat my four wives around, and it's only four PM. What should I do? Aha, I shall fly an airplane into a building!"

Now of course, if you sat down and thought about it, the guys who stand out the most as being Muslim probably aren't going to be your terrorists, but it still makes people uncomfortable. It's not racism or any anti-Islamic crap; it’s just how the current reality has conditioned them to respond - especially in the days after we killed the hijacker-in-chief.

No, it pretty much is discrimination. It suggests a correlation between people who wear Muslim garb and terrorism. And that's a bit silly.

It would have been hilarious if the pilot would have flown them back to the middle east

Sorry, you're just no ACIN.

[Ice]

Sensitivity and understanding go both ways. These people want to pretend like we don't live in a world where traditionalist Muslims fly planes into buildings on occasion. Now of course, if you sat down and thought about it, the guys who stand out the most as being Muslim probably aren't going to be your terrorists, but it still makes people uncomfortable. It's not racism or any anti-Islamic crap; it’s just how the current reality has conditioned them to respond - especially in the days after we killed the hijacker-in-chief.

An analogy. I love guns and would never even consider shooting someone in anger, and I'll stand up to defend my right to own them anytime and anywhere, but I wouldn't where a t-shirt with an Glock on it to a game at Virginia Tech - or to a Gabby Giffords speech. It sucks that a few fanatics have put a taint on one of my favorite interests, but that's life. It's all about discretion.

These people could have put on some jeans and a t-shirt and instead chose to be deliberately provocative in the setting they put themselves in. The result? They got bumped from a flight, profusely apologized to, and were given the next flight out. Comparing themselves to Rosa Parks is the height of arrogance and disrespect.

What a bunch of nonsense. As long as it conforms with law of the land, people should be free to wear whatever they want to on airline without discrimination. You act as though people in tradiational islamic attire are highjacking planes daily and the only way to stop them is by profiling.

These people want to pretend like we don't live in a world where traditionalist Muslims fly planes into buildings on occasion. Now of course, if you sat down and thought about it, the guys who stand out the most as being Muslim probably aren't going to be your terrorists, but it still makes people uncomfortable. It's not racism or any anti-Islamic crap; it’s just how the current reality has conditioned them to respond - especially in the days after we killed the hijacker-in-chief.

Yes it is racism and anti-islamic crap. That is the very essence of the situation.

[PanzerJaeger]

What a bunch of nonsense. As long as it conforms with law of the land, people should be free to wear whatever they want to on airline without discrimination.

Yes, they should, and indeed, they were! In fact, they were given the very next flight out in what I'm sure were upgraded seats. If these people were barred from ever flying again, I'd be right there with you, but what I object to is the asinine Civil Rights references. If you dress up like Osama bin Laden in the days after his death and try to pass through US airport security, you should expect some issues. (And yes, it was all dress up. I have friends at the U of M, where one of these fellows teaches Arabic, and apparently he dresses in jeans and a polo normally.) I do not think they should have been thrown off the plane, if the story as it is being told is accurate, but I'm not prepared to crown them Civil Rights heroes either. 'Situationally unaware dolts' seems more appropriate.

Of course, maybe these people on their way to a grand conference on "Islamaphobia" and with CAIR and the national press on speed dial (and, in fact, a cleverly packaged and sound-bite-shortened Rosa Parks analogy) knew exactly what they were talking about. Rosa Parks was looking for trouble too on that fateful day in 1955. However, one could certainly argue her grievances went far beyond getting bumped from a flight. In any event, now they get to have their press conference on what a terrible, racist country this is with much more media attention.

Keep in mind that certain people, especially in the worlds of NPOs and acedemia, thrive on social disharmony. Attention, respect, grants, tenure, board memberships, publishing deals, speaking gigs, and all sorts of other trappings are now associated with becoming a Civil Rights victim-hero in this country.

You act as though people in tradiational islamic attire are highjacking planes daily and the only way to stop them is by profiling.

Daily? Nein. Enough to be a serious concern? I think so, although they've moved from trying to hijack planes to simply trying to blow them up mid-flight. And yes, it would be stupid not to profile them.

Yes it is racism and anti-islamic crap. That is the very essence of the situation.

Racism is an irrational hatred or intolerance of another race. I don't think this has anything to do with hatred, intolerance, or these people's race. It was based on justified, if not well thought out, security concerns, considering the current environment.

"I can promise you the captain didn't throw those people off because of the way they were dressed. There's more to the story,” Ray said.

Ray said ultimately, it’s the captain’s call. “The captain operates in an environment that's always changing. It's dynamic. You can't fly an airplane by committee,” he said.

Ray said last week, every pilot in the country received e-mail briefings from their airlines warning them to be on high alert because of Osama Bin Laden’s death. He said that may have played in a part in Friday’s decision.

"We don't know if he had a message from air traffic control. We don't know if he got a message from his corporate security people to take these people off. We don't have all the answers."

The imams were headed to Charlotte for a weekend conference on "islamophobia" - the fear of Islam.

They were put on another flight and arrived a few hours later.

Anyway, I'm with Captain Ray. This is all just too convenient. The pilot had to have flown with traditionally dressed Muslims in the ~10 years since 9/11, and why would he go ahead and taxi out only to turn around?

Edit: And the plot thickens.

Early reports indicated their removal was ordered by the aircraft's pilot. On Friday, Transportation Security Administration spokesman Jon Allen had told the Commercial Appeal of Memphis that the men "were screened and cleared to fly" by the agency. But later, one of the passengers told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that "he spoke to the pilot after landing in Charlotte and the pilot told him that TSA requested the plane return to the terminal."

An airline spokesman said the incident was under investigation. The two clerics were put on aircraft that departed later. It turned out the clerics were headed to a weekend conference on "Islamophobia" in Charlotte.

"The irony of their going to a convention on Islamophobia when this happened is not lost," said aviation consultant Robert Mann.

Mann said he sensed that security was heightened as he boarded flights last week at Kennedy International Airport and at Miami International Airport. "I suspect there were advisories of some sort that related to the changed state of balance," he said. "It is always an interesting dynamic, how that is interpreted by individuals and carriers. You rarely get the full story on these incidents, given the security sensitivities."