Mass Effect 3 To Target A "Larger Market Opportunity"

[Crazed Rabbit]

From Eurogamer:

BioWare is in the process of realigning its Mass Effect franchise to appeal to a larger audience, according to EA boss John Riccitiello.

Speaking during an investor Q&A today, Riccitiello explained that Mass Effect 3 will boast greater mass appeal than its two predecessors.

"One of the things that Ray Muzyuka and the team up in Edmonton have done is essentially step-by-step adjust the gameplay mechanics and some of the features that you'll see at E3 to put this in a genre equivalent to shooter-meets-RPG," he said, "and essentially address a much larger market opportunity than Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 began to approach.

"We're huge believers in the IP and are purposefully shifting it to address a larger market opportunity."

I don't think this is going to be good. Which is unfortunate, because ME1 & 2 are probably my favorite game & sequel package.

And really, how much more mass market can you make the game after ME2? They already removed the inventory - are we going to see the removal of leveling up, or non-linear choices (at least in choosing where you want your ship to go, even if fights themselves were pretty linear)? Or the removal of choices that affect the plot?

How can you make a significant shift and have the result be anything but a generic FPS?

Finally, if they're such huge believers in the IP why do they want to change so much?

I didn't think anything could make me hesitate to buy ME3, but this could, depending on how it develops.

CR

[Graphic]

I don't think this is going to be good.

When you see the term "mass appeal" used when referring to art, it never is.

I don't know how they could F up the Mass Effect franchise worse than they did to Dragon Age with Dragon Age 2, but somehow I think they'll find a way.

This is what happens when you get bought by EA. Look at what Command & Conquer eventually turned into.

[Krusader]

It could also just be the EA CEO talking "investor-talk", but understandably it has caused a small uproar at Mass Effect forums.

I also think Mass Effect 2 is the almost perfect amount of shooter-meets-rpg already. Plus the developers already said earlier they would focus a bit more on RPG mechanics in ME3 and with this comment appearing, many people see a deja vu of Dragon Age 2 (whatever your opinion of DA2, at least its a fact a majority of people are more negative towards it than positive). Also, add in that "larger market oppurtunity" has usually meant simplifying games and making them easier, so people react out of experience.

[rajpoot]

Let's make a list...what other FPS elements can they add to Mass Effect 3. I mean I sincerely doubt that they can peel off any other RPG elements. Inventory is gone....leveling up and skill selection is very watered down.

Maybe they'll reintroduce the different kinds of ammunition from ME1. And perhaps add a consistent first person view.

[miotas]

Mass Effect had people criticise it for not being enough of a shooter and Mass Effect 2 had had people criticise it for not being enough of an RPG (removing the inventory and stripping back abilities). This just sounds like a verbose way of saying they want to try and strike a balance. At least I really hope that's all they meant.

[Graphic]

Mass Effect had people criticise it for not being enough of a shooter and Mass Effect 2 had had people criticise it for not being enough of an RPG (removing the inventory and stripping back abilities). This just sounds like a verbose way of saying they want to try and strike a balance. At least I really hope that's all they meant.

Personally, I only criticized Mass Effect for being a poor shooter. All they had to do was make the combat feel better by having better sounds and adding some recoil to the guns, not strip the depth from the game.

[Monk]

If Bioware up Mass Effect 3 I will never forgive them. Ever. It's my favorite IP of the current generation of games, and after the meh-ness of DA2, I cannot take another heartache. The series deserves a good send off, not an exercise in mediocrity.

I also think Mass Effect 2 is the almost perfect amount of shooter-meets-rpg already.

I agree 100%. I remember there was similar talk heading into ME2 and a some were really upset with the final product there, but I loved it. It made combat just as fun as the conversation and rpg elements, something the first game failed miserably at. I loved ME1, but I can never go back to it after the fun that Me2 offers. The combat's spoiled me.

[gaelic cowboy]

Mass Market hmmm unless they made it totally COD style I don't see how they can go anymore mass market, could be a multiplayer patch maybe co-op play but this late in the day I seriously doubt it, I bet they ditch mining and boring stuff like that.

To be honest I think there just talking rubbishy investor talk as has been pointed out already if you ask me there putting it back to hog the first 1/4 2012 for themselves.

[rajpoot]

In the first picture on the linked page....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Is that a Korgan husk?

[gaelic cowboy]

Let's make a list...what other FPS elements can they add to Mass Effect 3. I mean I sincerely doubt that they can peel off any other RPG elements. Inventory is gone....leveling up and skill selection is very watered down.

Maybe they'll reintroduce the different kinds of ammunition from ME1. And perhaps add a consistent first person view.

They already said you can pickup enemy weapons so that will mean differ bullets and mods are supposedly back and I imagine grenades will be back so thats three or four things off the top of me head.

[Sarmatian]

After DA2, this made me cringe.

I feel they're going to go for a cinematic TPS with ME3. ME2 was probably the closest you could get to a shooter without losing the RPG elements. I really am afraid that it will turn into a shooter with some stat building.

[gaelic cowboy]

After DA2, this made me cringe.

I feel they're going to go for a cinematic TPS with ME3. ME2 was probably the closest you could get to a shooter without losing the RPG elements. I really am afraid that it will turn into a shooter with some stat building.

I have a bit more faith not in EA but in there bean counters cos I say they stick with 80-90% of the ME2 they will feel it's basically to late to be making huge changes now twill cost too much

[Mailman653]

Even if the game is junk, I'll still buy it! Heh heh. But....I really hope that it isn't junk.

[naut]

This makes me angry. SO VERY ANGRY.

[Graphic]

I have a bit more faith not in EA but in there bean counters cos I say they stick with 80-90% of the ME2 they will feel it's basically to late to be making huge changes now twill cost too much

From the wording of the article, it sounds like the whole reason it's delayed is because the bean counters want them to go back and dumb it down some more so it can make more money.

[tibilicus]

I trust Bioware not to ruin Mass Effect. Then again I haven't played DA2 but I've heard nothing but bad things about it.

[Hooahguy]

In the first picture on the linked page....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Is that a Korgan husk?

If it is, then Im scared.

On the topic at hand, Im not worried. I have complete faith in Bioware.

"In Bioware we trust."

[rajpoot]

From the wording of the article, it sounds like the whole reason it's delayed is because the bean counters want them to go back and dumb it down some more so it can make more money.

You know that was my immediate response to the news too, but then consider, if they wanted to tone things down and take stuff out, why would they need extra time to do it? DA2 had half as much content as DAO and it was released very quickly. ME3 is using two full years which is a good sized development period. Even if they do tone things down more (I hope they don't) I'm sure they'll do it gracefully and add more stuff than they take out.
I mean they already had the chance to screw things up with Mass Effect 2, and even with the toned down RPG elements they managed to get excellent scores because I don't think the series was seen as a hardcore RPG by fans in the first place.
So I am hopeful. The other development team showed the world that they can create sequels which can potentially ruin a series....I doubt this dev team would step in the same pothole so soon after.

[gaelic cowboy]

From the wording of the article, it sounds like the whole reason it's delayed is because the bean counters want them to go back and dumb it down some more so it can make more money.

Remember where it was said though an investor conference and course there gonna big up one of the hot properties as to why investor should buy EA shares blah blah. I still say it is delayed to hog the limelight of the first quarter cos even a sniff of rewriting or delay can have the opposite effect of making investors nervous and not invest.

The hints are already there in my view in various article we know you can pick up enemy weapons which means the stupid lockers are gone which means prob bullets are back which prob means grenade be back too there is your mass market fps/rpg.

Also on the RPG elements being lightened there light enough already so to go any lighter you have to remove them and that is hardly likely this late in the year. They might try for a multiplayer but seeing as they have continually denied it I doubt it, I still think it is just talk.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I don't mind a well made fps side of the game. I didn't love ME2's combat for two reasons; the elimination of inventory and the ability to customize your guns, and the cover based combat, which I am not a big fan of. To me hiding behind boxes, then poppingup to shoot at other people behind boxes isn't exciting. It's like whack-a-mole at times.

CR

[gaelic cowboy]

I don't mind a well made fps side of the game. I didn't love ME2's combat for two reasons; the elimination of inventory and the ability to customize your guns, and the cover based combat, which I am not a big fan of. To me hiding behind boxes, then poppingup to shoot at other people behind boxes isn't exciting. It's like whack-a-mole at times.

CR

True enough but I suppose cos it's really a TPS/RPG then you need the boxes unlike in a true fps style, however essentially fps is using the same boxes even if it does look different.

[Crazed Rabbit]

It's not the cover, it's that the gameplay became a cover based shooter. In other games you hide behind cover, but you don't tap a button to get into cover and then another button to stand up. It seems like hiding and popping up is the whole point. Running is just to get you to the next bit of cover. I suppose part of it goes with the close range distances and the low lethality of shooting. In real life you don't need a lot of bullets to kill somebody. But if you do that in a game combat would be over much quicker and much less forgiving (less appeal to mass markets).

And that goes along with the short combat distances - at long distances with the same accuracy you're less likely to hit anything, so even with deadlier bullets the combat could last the same time. But then much of the graphics appeal is lost, as the only enemies you see close up are dead. I'd still rather have that though.

CR

[a completely inoffensive name]

You guys all need to calm down. They delayed ME3 at the same time and no one in this thread is talking about good that is because games that usually come in with a development cycle of less than 2 years are hindered greatly from excellence (KOTOR 2, DA2).

There is nothing you could possibly read from this that suggests that the game will be much worse. For all we know, they are retooling it to be more complex after the outrage the online gaming community had over DA2.

How about we look at the actual facts about the game before we pass judgement on what some guy in a suit says to make the investors pour more money in.

Here is a small article: http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/1...ents-detailed/

Weapons are upgradeable again, adding back some complexity that ME2 lacked. More Gears of War style combat which actually should flow a lot better with the new cover system that they implemented in ME2 because shepard was very clunky when dealing with fast cover to cover movement.

And there is word that they are working on armor some more.

From what I have read so far the most probable outcome of ME3 looks to be what Miotas has said, which is actually very level headed and not at all surprising for Bioware. A compromise between ME1 and ME2.

EDIT: Also a very important fact to note here. The Dragon Age series and the Mass Effect series were made by completely different teams. Just because one team decided to rush their projects doesnt mean the other will.

I can't seem to find who exactly made each game. But there are 4 main Bioware studios. Austin, Mythic, Montreal, and Edmonton.

EDIT 2: Random comment I found on random website says that ME series is made at Edmonton and DA series is made at Montreal and TOR is being made at Austin.

[rajpoot]

AFAIK both ME and ME2's team lead was Casey Hudson, and ME2 was developed at the Montreal studio.
So yeah little chance of them wrecking it like DA2.

Here is a small article: http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/1...ents-detailed/

Finally, Shepard will have to build alliances between the galaxy's various civilizations, the effects of which will determine the overall outcome of the game. The gameplay mechanic is described as being similar to earning the trust of squadmates in Mass Effect 2's suicide mission. The player's mistakes can cause entire armadas to be lost against the Reapers.

Sounds nice....this is going to be epic, for sure.

[Graphic]

There is nothing you could possibly read from this that suggests that the game will be much worse. For all we know, they are retooling it to be more complex after the outrage the online gaming community had over DA2.

The game was delayed, then a day later this guy explains in clear detail why: they're going back into the game to give it more "mass appeal." "Mass appeal" & "complexity" are mutually exclusive terms.

We didn't pull this out of our butts. It's pretty plain to see, so I'm wondering what you're missing.

[Greyblades]

Ah f***.


...Should have seen it coming really.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The game was delayed, then a day later this guy explains in clear detail why: they're going back into the game to give it more "mass appeal." "Mass appeal" & "complexity" are mutually exclusive terms.

We didn't pull this out of our butts. It's pretty plain to see, so I'm wondering what you're missing.

Lol, Bioware tells EA they need more time, and EA tells everyone that everything is fine, they are just making it better, therefor it will be a disaster.

As Strike once told me, learn some critical thinking. Video games are now "products" and EA have shareholders and stocks that they want to appease and go up respectively. When any sort of product is delayed, there is always some suit coming out from HR telling everyone that everything is fine.

If the guy in the suit said, the game wasn't finished so we needed more time, that makes Bioware and EA look bad to investors and hurts the stock options.

Mass appeal and complexity are not mutually exclusive. You don't know what you are talking about. I'm sorry, but I didn't realize that ME1 was such a failure, what with it's complexity and all.

I guess Fallout and the Elder Scrolls have been terrible, terrible failures because of their complexity. If only they were completely simplified to a 5 year old level like the Fable series, I am sure they would have been just as loved by the gaming community as Fable 2/3 were right?

Whine, whine, whine is all what seems to come from gamers today. Let's all boycott MW2, that will show them! Oh wait, but I still want to play it... Oh well, Imma continue to ***** anyway.

Like I said, calm down, and yes you really are pulling it out of your butts. There have been plenty of huge failures by game developers in the past, but now you guys are sharks jumping on everyone and everything as if gaming has committed a sin against you for trying to strike a balance between the hardcore and the casual like every other market in the history of capitalism.

EDIT: Also congratulations on completely ignoring the majority of my post that included an article revealing that they are adding more complexity into the game with weapon modifications.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Let's all step back a second and relax. We all enjoy games and there's no need to get mad at each other.

CR

[Graphic]

I didn't boycott MW2 and I didn't buy it either :-/

Like I said, calm down

Take your own advice, dude.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Let's all step back a second and relax. We all enjoy games and there's no need to get mad at each other.

CR

I am not really angry though. I just get insulted at how video game consumers are actually very well informed in general about the market and the crappy ways Sony, Microsoft etc, try to nickle and dime us but then they take out their anger and frustration in the most counterproductive or even nonsensical ways.

Take your own advice, dude.

Pssh, I haven't done that for a long time.