Article about Petra (mainly german)

[ziegenpeter]

Good day fellow EB-Fans!
Today I stunbled upon an article about the city of petra and its baths. Its in german, but those of you who don't speak german kann still check out the movies (just click the arrows) or the pics ("Fotostrecke")
There sometimes translations of SPIEGEL articles, but I don't know where, maybe a fellow german can find them.
So long...
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/m...763981,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/flash/flash-26006.html

[Kival]

I've only found a website in english about the project: http://www.auac.ch/iubp/ The articles of the SPIEGEL about science are not translated as far as i know but then I also really do not like this magazine ... so i'm not sure

[Moros]

Yes personally I'm anxious to see the results when of the future expeditions, when the real digging will be done. Personally I wasn't that surprised about it. there already was this fancy pool complex (see: http://petragarden.homestead.com/poolcomplex.html), the complex and meticulous water supply, typical Roman and Hellenic buildings (theather,...). Add the Rock Carved Tombs and all, it must have been a marvellous city in it's day and age. Still is actually, sadly I've not yet been able to visit Jordan.

[fomalhaut]

I parsed through it yesterday, not good enough auf Deutsch yet to be able to get many of the details, but my perception of Petra is definitely changed. I didn't realize the Hellenic influence as well as the infrastructure. very impressive for what was seemingly a nomadic desert people. The Nabateans in EB1 don't really get a proper representation

[Moros]

I parsed through it yesterday, not good enough auf Deutsch yet to be able to get many of the details, but my perception of Petra is definitely changed. I didn't realize the Hellenic influence as well as the infrastructure. very impressive for what was seemingly a nomadic desert people. The Nabateans in EB1 don't really get a proper representation

I remember some north Arabian units were being planned for EBI, but didn't get there because the arab historians disappeared.

Also note that the true hellenizing of Petra began only in the first century BC. Some argue that especially after the capture of Damskos around 86 BC (IIRC). But a lot of it is AD and much is even Roman itself (106AD and later).

[Tanit]

Yeah, my time in Petra was wonderful, even spent time doing some personal research at the Amman ASOR library. And yeah, the city is and must have been impressive, the giant temples and market in the center are very nice. And although a lot of the construction we know comes from the later hellenistic period, the tombs carved into the cliff face go all the way back to the Edomite period, though not as elaborate in those days.

[fomalhaut]

I remember some north Arabian units were being planned for EBI, but didn't get there because the arab historians disappeared.

Also note that the true hellenizing of Petra began only in the first century BC. Some argue that especially after the capture of Damskos around 86 BC (IIRC). But a lot of it is AD and much is even Roman itself (106AD and later).

what kind of North Arabian or Nabatean units could be in EB or even EBII?

What was the function of Petra? as in was it just the commercial and political hub of the Nabatean traders and such? Again my perception of the Nabateans are as illusive desert nomads which is why a city as magnificent as Petra is so outstanding.

[Moros]

At our start date and during the early period of the Nabataean kingdom it would be mainly a trading hub and used as stronghold by the nomads as well as a living place for settled people. Note that the Nabataean territory was inhabited by many tribes and nations, both nomads and settled. Possibly it was already of religious significance for them. The actual sorta capital at this time and prime stronghold (helmsdeep kinda thingy) was Sela. Which actually was large rock with only one and very small stairs allowing you to climb it. Ideal for holding your ground. This rock is actually the reason why people often confused it (both now and back then) with Petra which also has it's akropolislike thingy on a large central rock. Petra only started to be of significant importance and being the capital around the beginning of the second century BC or so. Starting from the first century BC it became this illustrous and magnificent piece of art. During the hellenistic period it was one of the most important trade stops of the Arabian trade routes (incense routes, Indo-Arab spice routes, gold, african trade, silk,...). They were famed for their richess and being great traders. It was fabled that Nabataeans punished people who didn't make profit.

Some suggested reading that might be of interest (both german though, not sure wether there are translations):
Nabataïsche Architektur: inbesonderes Gräber und Tempel, E. NETZER.
Petra: Antike Feltsstadt zwischen arabischer Tradition und griechischer Norm, P. VON ZABERN.

On units well from the area the Nabataeans and other North arabians lived we mainly have graffiti (petroglyphs) carved in rocks to go on. But archers, spearmen, mediumswordmen and light lancers seem to have been common. Archaeology doesn't help us much though until the later Romanized/Hellenized period. And as said before the Red Sea coast will have camels now.

[fomalhaut]

Ich kann ein bisschen Deutsch, aber werde ich hochwahrscheinlich ein ubersaetzung brauchen :/

thanks for the reply, that's lots of nice information.

that's awesome to hear about camels, i thought that was something missing though i do understand that camels weren't a very common battlefield sight.

[Moros]

Not common for any of our factions, but as we also want represent regional armies correctly we had to include them. Quite a few were used by the Red Sea nomads. though mostly for harrasing the enemy with their bows and arrows.

I know some English books on it but I can't really recommend them. But I can have a look if you want and try to find some good english books and post them later.