Realm Divide, talk about a challenge.

[Leptomeninges]

The penalty starts out smaller but it can grow as high as -400 from what i hear.

Every turn played after realm divide the penalty increases in value, so while your allies may stick by you in the short term after it, long term they will go against you.

The realm divide penalty gets applied to all factions on the map when you reach the required clan fame with province expansion AND when you take Kytoto.

Vassals created after realm divide are said to not have the penalty, however they will get it when you take Kyoto if you have not already done so.

So the only way to get a lasting alliance against that level of penalty is (after taking Kyoto and being Shogun) creating a vassal out of taking their last capital province, effectively you create a new clan on the map without the penalty.

I've definitely seen vassals created after RD get hit by the negative diplomatic modifier. I'm unsure if it was only after I took Kyoto. In some early games I "liberated" several vassals for trade purposes after RD and was surprised when they turned on me as I'd heard they were immune to the penalty if created after RD.

[Zarobien]

I just hit the real divide for the first time (turn 41). Playing with Takeda; I had Uesensugi Kensing attacking my Faction leader and that pushed it over the edge. I only got -30 from realm divide to diplomatics. I kept my both allies; Date with marriage and Togunawa... How ever; i got two former vassals of allies turning on me now. (I couldnt allie them because they where vassals and the trade deal wasnt enough.)

I'd like to keep the allies and trade but tbh: when it comes to diplomacy in total war games; I have yeat to see working one, and I have played from original shogun total war. I expect this to end me vs everyone no matter what (like it allways does). So I'm calculating taking on everyone.

So I guess I will be now seeing some samurai armies from kioto?

Edit: Made a vasal to test that... The vassal has no realm divider but it has -100 on past griefances.

[TinCow]

I've definitely seen vassals created after RD get hit by the negative diplomatic modifier. I'm unsure if it was only after I took Kyoto. In some early games I "liberated" several vassals for trade purposes after RD and was surprised when they turned on me as I'd heard they were immune to the penalty if created after RD.

Apparently the negative diplo modifier is applied twice; once at Realm Divide and a second time when you take Kyoto. Since that penalty applies to all factions, even vassals, you can only get perfect 'loyal' vassals by creating them after both of those events have occurred.